myPlanetGanja.com

Posted: **Fri Jun 05, 2009 3:21 pm**

Do any of you have any experience with LED lighting? A friend of mine is considering buying one.

Posted: **Fri Jun 05, 2009 3:31 pm**

Dick Hertz wrote:Do any of you have any experience with LED lighting? A friend of mine is considering buying one.

No experience, but the word on the street is "don't bother".

They're no better than CFLs in any respect and cost many, many times more.
I've seen lots of LED threads with various setups and without exception, they've been very unimpressive.

Posted: **Fri Jun 05, 2009 3:47 pm**

Thanks Bloke, I will pass that on.

Posted: **Fri Jun 05, 2009 6:38 pm**

There was a guy who called himself hydrorascal who was raving about them over at TCC about a year and a half ago. Went so far as trying to sell his own lights. I think his grows went south or his lights did because he disappeared and nobody has heard from him.

Posted: **Fri Jun 05, 2009 8:19 pm**

We've grown with them and they're useless. The local hydro shop guy gave two UFOs to a commercial mate of mine to trial before he stocked them and he went from averaging 2 x 1lb plants under 2 x 600w of HPS to about 2-3oz per plant under 2 UFOs in the same space (total 5oz compared to 2lb prior). The bud was good quality, but the plants ended up so small it was laughable. Even more laughable was the price for the two UFOs - almost US$4000 for the entire set-up (2 x UFOs and 1 cabinet). I still think my mate kept them too high above the plants, and that they should have been closer for better results, but I still couldn't see them beating a HPS lamp for output/results and - most importantly - cost. The only area they beat the HPS was in grams-per-watt. The UFOs were 90w each, so while he was averaging about .75g per watt with HPS lamps, he got .78g per watt from the UFOs. That was as good as it got. A proper HPS grow should be able to get close to 1g/w anyway - my mate doesn't look after his grows as well as he should, as he doesn't smoke pot himself, he only grows for commercial reasons.

Posted: **Fri Jun 05, 2009 11:08 pm**

Wrong site, wrong peeps to ask. Forget about TCC and most others...like former Legion 'let's have a LED thread' on PG. n00bs, armchair experts who repeat on obsolete, old antiquated LED tech anecdotal evidence. Like Sportster, benji, etc. (same for FSM's linked thread, unfortunately

)

TCC's herd mentality lead by Shoody Noody, just couldn't handle latest LED developments, nor do people understand fully the dynamics of grow lighting.

Old thread, but try reading this one, or search on LED@CC

LED lighting on trial

http://forums.cannabisculture.com/forum ... 888&page=1

Posted: **Fri Jun 05, 2009 11:19 pm**

FullySikMate wrote:Sounds like you got trully ripped off with those UFO's Prawn

....
If i remember correctly he comes to the conclusion they just aint worth it yet

Won't be 'worth it' from a cost vs HID, only consideration for many years, until the more efficient, higher output LED's become commodity items selling for <$3ea.
Better LED's (not the ones used in craptastic LED grow lights by startup co's like those being adverts on MJ forums) currently cost ~$6 USD ea, in quantities <1000. Got to buy 100k or more to bring the price down.

There are a whole range of LED efficiencies in a particular manufacturers line, constantly changing from year to year. You have to look at which specific model part# are being used. Virtually none of the 'grow' light manufacturers provide any essentially useful info.

I think advanced LED is a bit stagnent at present, due to world wide recession. Give it a few more years.

Posted: **Sat Jun 06, 2009 12:01 am**

Thanks for all your input.
My friend is going to have to make up his own mind but I think clearly they are not ready for prime time and that's what I am going to tell him.

Posted: **Sat Jun 06, 2009 5:47 am**

FullySikMate wrote:Sounds like you got trully ripped off with those UFO's Prawn

Didn't get ripped off - we didn't pay for them. It was a trial grow. The shop lent them to us to see if they were any good before he decided to stock them. The verdict was he wouldn't stock them after our results.

When I say "we/our" I really mean my mate - I help him out with his grows, supplying clones/troubleshooting etc, but it was his grow. If it were mine, I would have hung them lower. But I grow vertically anyway, so I wasn't about to change my setup to trial a couple of dodgy horizontal UFOs.

Posted: **Sun Jun 07, 2009 10:55 pm**

Dick Hertz wrote:Do any of you have any experience with LED lighting? A friend of mine is considering buying one.

Sometimes, ya gotta think out of the box...won't find that on MJ forums. I remember all the tools/trolls on OG...on the fluoro threads. Now the fluoro proponents would have told you, fluro can't provide enough light for decent grows. Yet some do alright, witness the ego sensitive Beekaa mod on OpG who edited my post, simply because I disagreed with him, lol. Well he was wrong, so what if he's got as 'The Joker' said to me in a PM alerting me to the fact that he got email from people who said "who is this blowhard, asshole"...most likely Big-V didn't like my stealing his Mick jagger swagger thunder, in avoiding being arrested. Yeah, so what if the Netherlands has lots of experience with *current* and old antiquated fluro micro cabinet grows that are according to 'The Joker" "awesomely documented" BFD.

Yeah, The Joker can, as well as PG trolls, call me all the names, 'armchair expert' they want.

Let me throw you some other thoughts, you won't see on *any* other MJ forums.

I was (as the Joker uses his ad homenin attacks, saying anyone can do CnP Google searches....er, just like Benji, except benji doesn't understand what he's saying but tries real hard to impress people that he does :P ) reading up, searching on MJ forums for the latest in ceramic metal halide lighting (what Jesus, who besides being an annoying troll on PG actually understood a bit more than most)...I got on to some threads about PAR, spectrum analysis and what not. Seems there are some who are following, reading, trying to find all the answers. Good thread on uk420 with OpG/wb forum member/mod 'Whazzup" about UV light...seems even OldTimer1 is interested in experimenting, even if he doesn't really grasp all the dynmics involved... Yet

If you want to find out about the highest intensity, possible replacement for true high power HID lighting, go to the reefer forums, ie. aquarium forums...but be advised, Admn & mods on the biggest of reefer forums are in fact current LEO, Do search on Sanjay, univ. prof who did extensive testing on aquarium HID with a loaned/ discountinued $5k spectroradiograph from the lead scientific equipment manufacturer in that field. Do a search benji, the company name is Li-Cor. ah, hell...I'll do it for you:

http://www.licor.com/

and they know full well about MJ forums members being interested in the most powerful lighting tech. There were a few on TCC who were really interested, 'wyldflowers' who deleted had a apogee PAR meter---no really that accurate, or more useful than a lux meter as it doesn't give you measurement of frequency bandwidth intensity but just an average of the entire output, but they mostly left when TCC got 'Shoodynized' last year.

Then there's me, armchair expert too :D...but with a twist, knows more than just Google searches...been to the leading Chinese distribution warehouse/importer of latest fluro tech. Expensive as hell, but not as much as hype LED MJ forum directed lighting. I've seen five figure cost spectroradiograph equipment that gives real-time graphical color output of the spectrum on a laptop, very accurate measure of PAR and anything else you want.

But I digress. on the subject of future LED tech, in the thread I previously linked to, it was almost like a PG thead :D. And here I thought only PG was a 'free speech' site, lol.

Tell your friend you need to know what LED emitters are being used to avoid the hype, almost no one on MJ forums understands LED tech at all. And you ask, do I, armchair expert know? Not completely, but I do have a friend who is a LED fanatic, spends his time on a certain flashlight forum I got banned from :D. He's got an Ivy League Univ degree in electrical engineering.

http://forums.cannabisculture.com/forum ... 88&page=23

Lumi Grow 260w (250w usable light) 50-5w Luxeon LED, 50w of blue and 200w of red.

___

___

red and blue = purple...duh

__

awwh, purdy pix...and the post author says you need 3w or 5w emitters. Well maybe. What you need to understand is them there LED's are current limited/driven devices. Same LED can be driven to 3w or 5w if it was designed for that. And at higher wattages (current flow) efficiency deteriorates unless you can keep them emitters nice an cool (sorry Sportster, LED's do emit some heat, and if not controlled, it's a waste of energy/efficiency)

Food for thought, hey where's that troll FatFreddiesCAt, he was interested in reptilian UV lamps, though he too did not comprehend the dynamics involved there:

http://www.laserfocusworld.com/display_ ... tioxidants

When bombarded with ultraviolet rays from the sun, the lettuce leaf creates UV-absorbing polyphenolic compounds in its outer layer of cells. Some of these compounds are red and belong to the same family that gives color to berries and apple skin. They help block ultraviolet radiation, which can mutate plant DNA and damage the photosynthesis that allows a plant to make its food. Polyphenolic compounds,which include flavonoids like quercetin and cyanidin, are also powerful antioxidants. Diets rich in antioxidants are thought to provide a variety of health benefits to human beings, from improving brain function to slowing the wear and tear of aging.

To create red leaf lettuce plants enriched with these compounds, Britz purchased low-power LEDs that shine with UVB light, a component of natural sunlight. In small quantities, this ultraviolet light allows humans to produce vitamin D, which has been cited for its health benefits. Britz exposed the plants to levels of UVB light comparable to those that a beach goer would feel on a sunny day, approximately 10 milliwatts per square meter. After 43 hours of exposure to UVB light, the growing lettuce plants were noticeably redder than other plants that only saw white light.

Remember when you read about some new product by a company that's trying to sell it, everything they publish might be misleading

. TMod Maverick said as much on OpG,

http://www.ledsmagazine.com/news/6/4/5

Plant growth gets the red light from Showa Denko
07 Apr 2009
The Japanese LED maker has developed high-performance 660 nm chips that accelerate plant photosynthe

http://www.ledsmagazine.com/news/6/5/1

Several announcements from leading LED makers including Cree and Lumileds demonstrate further improvements at the device level.
Cree LED achieves 139 lm at 350 mA
Just before Lightfair, Cree announced the XLamp XP-G LED, described as “the industry's brightest and highest-efficiency Lighting-Class LED” (see press release).
It is important to note that the XP-G is not yet commercially available, however Cree is currently taking sample requests and says products should be available in the third quarter of calendar 2009.
The cool white XLamp XP-G provides 139 lumens and 132 lm/W at 350 mA, and 345 lm at a current of 1 A. Presumably, these figures relate to the highest available bin.
Cree claims that the XP-G LED has “the highest lumen density of any available lighting-class LED.” The product is based on the XLamp XP family package, with dimensions of 3.45 x 3.45 mm. Cree’s XR family package measure 7.0 x 9.0 mm.

Note the package size on these, 1/4th the area of standard high-power LED's now in use in the older MJ forum LED lighting non-solutions :D...can you think of a reason why that might be important?

Prototype 150lm/w LED's have been demonstrated as of late 2007, now up to 191lm/w..will take years before they become common, but they *are* coming, and eventually will be a cheap as computer memory, ie, should replace most HID applications.

Ah the penetration issue, MJ forum trolls like on PG...all so homoerotic, don't you think? Lack of understanding of how plants are using light, I suppose. Or else, how one *might* obtain better uniformity...ya need a no-hype grow light company to get you that, or someone who's going to experiment and has the appropriate light intensity measurement exquipment to do more than just pontificate/masterbate over the internet.

Multichip emitters may be the way of future high output LED lighting:

http://www.ledsmagazine.com/news/6/3/25

In 5 or 10yrs, OLED's *may* surpass more common LED's as the light solution of choice...they are at near 90lm/w efficiency now, more than what is likely being used in the current MJ Forums LED grow lights

Did you know, the older Luxeon Rebel at it's surface is brighter than noon daylight sun? Can burn right through black electrical tape not from heat, but from concentrated light, like a magnifying glass focusing the sunlight can start a fire?

What are these you say?

http://dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.13903

http://dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.4584

In quantity, they don't cost much. How many MJ forums LED grow lights are using these to *maximize* light intensity delivery, would not add significantly to the cost of a grow light with 100 or more LED's? I've not see a one, why is that? Ah the emperor and his clothes...in a nut shell we have current LED grow lamp tech

long on hype, little as far as useful comparative light output between HID...I mean actual *accurate* measuring instruments, used properly in a controlled study.

Must be because I'm such an awesome armchair expert, huh. Prolly why Pistils banned me from BB, that and my calling hhf on his BS hype strain descriptions...just Pistils protecting his own business interests like the complete hypocrite he is.
^attack the message, when you can't understand the implications

typical MJ forum 'debate'

To be fair to Pistils, at least he was interested in a new tech, Sodium Plasma lighting, just the wrong tech to get excited about :D ...still a douchebag though.

Posted: **Sun Jun 07, 2009 11:55 pm**

So - do you like it or not..............

Posted: **Mon Jun 08, 2009 3:09 pm**

PGs GossipGrrl™ wrote:
FullySikMate wrote:Sounds like you got trully ripped off with those UFO's Prawn

....
If i remember correctly he comes to the conclusion they just aint worth it yet

Won't be 'worth it' from a cost vs HID, only consideration for many years, until the more efficient, higher output LED's become commodity items selling for <$3ea.
Better LED's (not the ones used in craptastic LED grow lights by startup co's like those being adverts on MJ forums) currently cost ~$6 USD ea, in quantities <1000. Got to buy 100k or more to bring the price down.

There are a whole range of LED efficiencies in a particular manufacturers line, constantly changing from year to year. You have to look at which specific model part# are being used. Virtually none of the 'grow' light manufacturers provide any essentially useful info.

I think advanced LED is a bit stagnent at present, due to world wide recession. Give it a few more years.

so what you're saying is that everyone in this thread but you is wrong and stupid, even though everyone seems to be coming to the same conclusion for, most likely, the exact same reasons?

Posted: **Thu Jun 11, 2009 9:00 pm**

^ LOL! You actually read that post?

Hint: Some people have an opinion on everything - whether they have experience or not.

Posted: **Thu Jun 11, 2009 9:51 pm**

eventually...
your plants will seemingly grow in the dark...

youll turn on the light so that you can work...
youll see each of their leaves tented by a soapbubble like film...
whos underside is an array of microscopic leds bathing the photoreceptors from a fraction of an inch away...

wireless of course...

Posted: **Fri Jun 12, 2009 6:14 pm**

Prawn Connery wrote:^ LOL! You actually read that post?

Hint: Some people have an opinion on everything - whether they have experience or not.

i skimmed

Posted: **Fri Jun 12, 2009 8:29 pm**

ben ttech wrote:eventually...
your plants will seemingly grow in the dark...

youll turn on the light so that you can work...
youll see each of their leaves tented by a soapbubble like film...
whos underside is an array of microscopic leds bathing the photoreceptors from a fraction of an inch away...

wireless of course...

Man, you come out with some pure sci-fi genius at times - that's a fucken brilliant idea! Of course, except when it comes time to wipe off the film . . . and your trichomes, too.

Posted: **Mon Jun 22, 2009 12:00 am**

someday someone will rub two of my ideas together...
be advised...

Posted: **Mon Jun 22, 2009 1:56 am**

ben ttech wrote:eventually...
your plants will seemingly grow in the dark...

Seemingly?

It’s finally here! Moonraker Marijuana! The long wait is over! Grown in the Anarctic, doesnt need light to grow!

http://budtrader.com/?p=1366

Posted: **Mon Jun 22, 2009 5:58 pm**

ben ttech wrote:eventually...
your plants will seemingly grow in the dark...

youll turn on the light so that you can work...
youll see each of their leaves tented by a soapbubble like film...
whos underside is an array of microscopic leds bathing the photoreceptors from a fraction of an inch away...

wireless of course...

that's a cooler idea than most good sci fi writers could come up with. we're talking william gibson territory.

Posted: **Mon Jun 22, 2009 7:21 pm**

indubitably!

Posted: **Mon Aug 03, 2009 11:09 am**

I have been checking out LED grows at various other forums, including one site that is just about LEDs. It seems that LEDs have finally reached the point where they are worthwhile. Prawn is right about the UFOs. Nothing but bad reviews, but there are other commercially available units now that seem to be doing the trick. Right now I'm working on cab grow that will be lit by eight 42w CFLs then I'm going to start adding LEDs. I will be building the arrays and power supplies myself.

This I found pretty interesting:

Plants use blue light for certain regulatory processes and also for photosynthesis. Chlorophyll absorbs both blue and red light and uses the light's energy to power the complex process in which water and atmospheric carbon dioxide are converted to sugar and oxygen to gas. Blue light does not affect the regulation of flowering.
When blue light is turned on during the dark period, plants photosynthesize but their flowering isn't affected. This results in more growth as the plants produce more sugars. Before LED lights it was difficult to create pure blue light. Instead, most of the time other spectrums were filtered out, which can be an inconvenient process. Try using between 20 and 40 watts of mixed blue light per 1000 watts of regular light.

Skunk Mag (Vol 5 Issue 1)
by Ed Rosenthal

It wasnt but a week or two ago I gave the same response most people here gave about LEDs at a different forum. Then I decided I had better check on the status quo of LEDs and discovered that a lot of progress has been made in the last year or two. Not only has output power been increased but a new red LED was developed that emits at 660nm.

There are lots of new threads on this subject all over the web now, including grow shows. I think its probably time to start re-evaluating their potential. Like Prawn said stay away from the UFOs. They use low power LEDs and not quite the right spectrums if I remember right. Lots of bad reviews. But there are lots of good reviews on other arrays. You're looking at spending a fortune if you dont build your own though.

Posted: **Fri Aug 07, 2009 11:21 pm**

jesus wrote:
When blue light is turned on during the dark period, plants photosynthesize but their flowering isn't affected. This results in more growth as the plants produce more sugars

sounds better that co2...

Posted: **Tue Dec 22, 2009 4:38 am**

Say, what happened to Prawn? Benji?....Heh-sue-sss?

Look who's got a vendor forum of their own on ICMag now:

1512W LED Perpetual Harvest Aeroponic Bloom Room!!!
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=145384

LEDGrrl sez the website will be providing measures of micromoles/sqft at various distances for their grow lights soon.

Good, but what armchair expert here can tell me why that's not enough?

I mean come on, if ya selling $5k lighting setups to people, why don't you publish spectral output by wavelength, in narrow bands...maybe because like Sporto, ya don't really know wtf yer talking about with LED lighting, or botanical light spectrum analysis as it pertains to photosynthesis or perhaps the complex relationship between light and cannabinoid/terpine production? Yeah, I thought so. Maybe I should reg a handle over there on ICMag, and see how fast I get banned for making these points over there :D

Spectroradiometers can be had for <$5k. I've seen a less accurate one, but far more useful measure than those $300 Quantum PAR meters, selling for just over $1k.

She's going to do a grow that hits MJ's "saturation" point, yet admits she doesn't know what that point is, and she'll just go by a tomato...no links to the reference that specifies saturation point intensity measures for tomatoes either.

Kinda silly too, what equatorial sativa has the same light intensity requirements or 'saturation' point as a rudi/northern indie cross? :D

Claims the 120 deg. angle LED's don't have good penetration. Guess she doesn't do any of the R&D for that company, lol.

Look at those great LED fixtures, can she tell me why the LED's are grouped into smaller 'pods' instead of logically evenly distributed over the surface. I'll bet in 5 or more years, those type of arrangements will not be seen. Evenly spaced, likely with inexpensive plastic optical lens will provide greater 'penetration' focusing *more* of the available light being output by any angle bare LED, meaning a more efficient utilization of the light being output = few LED's needed = lower cost fixtures.

$5k for her setup, and she says they are getting a customer per week dropping such huge coin? Who are these people?

Not blue, not red, not specific frequency of red that LEDGrrrl *claims* is necessary for the superior blooming her companies' lights produce......

Cree announced recently a lab prototype LED that does 186lm/watt, at a lower K color than more typical 5k-8k blue white LED's. Time will tell if they put this into mass commercial production with in a year or two. What that means however, is that lower bins, the ones that cost much less, and are lower in efficiency; should make LED lighting much less expensive in the near future. So much so, that in just a few years, the lights the LEDGrrl is selling, will seem ridiculously overpriced in comparison. Kind of like how computer hardware improves in performance, and you get more 'bang for the buck' as time goes by.

http://www.cree.com/press/press_detail. ... 9701233981

Highest efficiency HPS HID on initial lumens is 150lm/watt....but it drops more over time than LED's that are properly designed (LED fixtures that are not properly designed, will lose more output overtime if the LED's are allowed to run too hot than even HID's). Yeah, for sure LED's run cooler/generate much less heat than HID's, but the notion (implied) that a 1512w LED setup doesn't generate heat is silly, and dishonest.

Hey check it out, LEDGrrl sez in her 1st post she's a legal MedMJ grower, doesn't advocate illegal growing...yet shows us her catus (peyote) growing under LED :D. Oh man, she's a hard-core experienced master grower, with mad skillz. Somebody should point UB to her threads

Posted: **Sat Jan 09, 2010 3:33 pm**

Cover Story
LED Lighting: The Fight for the Throne

Low-Priced Products Shake the Market; New Makers Vie with Old, Intensifying Competition

http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/article/HO ... 26/178024/

[Part 2: Technology]
Cheaper and Brighter: Innovations in Thermal Radiation, Chip Architecture and More

(I think Sporto & LEDGrrl ICMag vendor, probably missed this one

vvv )

While I don't expect performance & price drops to match that of computer memory/hard drive/SSD's pace; I do expect within 5yrs or less, the only HID users will be those old farts here and on MJ forums. All other plant growers, mJ, indoor orchids, veggies, etc will have all gone over to LED's by then. There will of course be much hype and profiteering going on with LED grow lights on MJ forums between now and then :D. Maybe Sporto can make enough to retire on

.

*note* I don't buy a 'deputy general manager' from a Bus div's 'should be possible' words, as if he was a knowledgeable scientist. 300lm/w is not likely, baring some impressive newer innovations in LED physics that don't currently exist. 200lm/w for sure, in that time frame.

http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/article/HO ... 26/178025/

The firm acquired the LED operation of Mitsubishi Cable Industries Ltd of Japan in 2008, and entered into a licensing agreement with Cree Inc of the US in Jan 2009 for m-plane GaN technology. The company plans to use the technology to supply white LEDs combining outstanding color characteristics with high emission efficiency, cooperating with lighting system manufacturers to make and market complete fixtures.

LED chips using m-plane GaN substrates use GaN crystal cut on the non-polar m-plane, with GaN layers grown on top. Engineers believe that it can provide performance superior to the sapphire substrate in common use now, according to Shin Kawana, deputy general manager, Business Planning Group, SSLD Department, Information and Electronics Div at the firm: "With m-plane GaN it should be possible to roughly triple emission efficiency, which means 200lm/W to 300lm/W."

The development of m-plane GaN substrate LEDs is under way at other companies, universities, etc, as well, but problems with poor productivity and high cost have been cited. Mitsubishi Chemical uses a relatively low-cost liquid-phase growth technique. The firm's Kawana revealed they hope to cut manufacturing cost to the level of blue LED chips by about 2015.

The company currently uses a conventional LED package, with a combination of blue LED and yellow phosphors (Fig 7). The next step will be to apply the firm's expertise in phosphors to combine red and green phosphors with the blue LED, creating an LED package with outstanding color characteristics. This type of package generally suffers from low emission efficiency, but the company hopes to boost that to 100lm/W by 2010 by enhancing the phosphors.

The m-plane GaN substrate is a good choice for future generations, too. Engineers are working on a package for high emission efficiency and good color characteristics by combining the substrate with a near-ultraviolet LED and red, green and blue phosphors. Sample-shipment is scheduled to begin before the end of fiscal 2009, with volume production slated for 2011.

Posted: **Sun Jan 24, 2010 4:59 pm**

I know there is a guy doing a test at overgrow, i think. I belive that its possible, but more research needs to be done, something Advanced nutirents should look at.

Posted: **Sun Feb 07, 2010 7:55 pm**

http://www.cree.com/press/press_detail. ... 5232091259" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HID lights will be dust in about 5yrs or LESS. Cheap(er) stealthy LED lighting is on it's way (maybe hav 2 DYI, the way the LED growlight whores are making $$$$ now).

Posted: **Wed Feb 17, 2010 3:32 am**

The technology isn't right there, and probably wont be for about ten more years.

Posted: **Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:41 pm**

A Bloke Down The Pub wrote:
Dick Hertz wrote:Do any of you have any experience with LED lighting? A friend of mine is considering buying one.
No experience, but the word on the street is "don't bother".

They're no better than CFLs in any respect and cost many, many times more.
I've seen lots of LED threads with various setups and without exception, they've been very unimpressive.

That is one of the most common lighting misperceptions.

LED’s work FANTASTIC if you purchase high quality LED’s and if you purchase enough of them and if you know how to use them. Remove one of the three needs and your results will make you say they are not any good but that won’t be because LED’s aren’t good, it will be because someone tried to do it cheap so they bought low quality LED’s and not enough LED’s and or did not know how to use them.

Research NASA’s use of LED’s and it will amaze you. NASA has had tremendous success growing various different types of plants on earth and in space using LED’s.

Before the original Cannabis World went down I followed a thread from germination to harvest that was all LED lighting and I have never seen a more impressive grow before.

The guy came into a bunch of money, which is needed, and he scrapped his HID lighting and went all LED. He had, if I remember right, two or three large panels above his plants and I do not remember how many but he had LED light bars that he attached to what I call portable posts, 4X4’s with a square plywood bottom. He circled his plants with the portable posts with LED’s and then put more LED light bars on all four sides of portable posts and put them between his plants. His plants were like Christmas trees, perfect shape and produced like mad from top to bottom, big dense heavy thick buds.

Not counting his initial layout, of course, it was much cheaper for him to grow. His electricity bill dropped a good bit, not only because the LED’s used less electricity but they put off so little heat that he was able to stop running his large fan for outside ventilation of heat. He also figured that he was safer because his two 1000-watt HID lights would create enough heat that he figured he had a noticeable heat signature, but not after switching to LED’s.

You just have to purchase the best, purchase enough of them and know how to use them and if you can do that, once you have you won’t use anything else ever again.

The thing is he is the only person I have ever run across on any cannabis growing site that went LED and did it right.

Most people I have seen bought one or two low quality LED’s and hung them above their plants and that was it and they were disappointed and would later say they are junk or say they would be ok to supplement other forms of lighting but not able to be used alone.

They would blame the LED’s for their mistakes and people would believe what they said was true but only because they had seen someone do it right before and don’t know what it takes and don’t know what mistakes most people make when they try to use LED’s.

Posted: **Fri Mar 19, 2010 4:28 pm**

Very interesting.
Do you happen to recall what his total wattage was?

Posted: **Sat Mar 20, 2010 5:41 am**

Dick Hertz wrote:Very interesting.
Do you happen to recall what his total wattage was?

I really don’t remember what the total wattage was. I do remember the member saying how much his electricity bill dropped but I do not remember the figures for that either but that would make me have to believe that even with as many LED’s as he was using the total wattage used was still considerably less than he was using with HID lighting. Some of the savings he attributed to his not having to run his A/C at as low of a temperature but how much that might have accounted for I could not guess. He just figured that was part of it along with the difference in needed ventilation.

Until about a year and a half ago I had pictures of his grow stored on my computer but I lost them, along with EVERYTHING else when my hard drive died. If I still had them I would be more than glad to post them. Some were of the setup before the grow began and the rest, making up most of them, were the grow and final results.

The figure I wish I could remember was his total lighting cost. It was a LARGE AMOUNT so I am sure that few people would go that route, unless they had more money to burn on lighting than money to burn on electricity.

That is the biggest drawback in LED’s today. True high quality ones do not come cheap so doing it right will always cost someone a LARGE AMOUNT more up front when they start out or to make the conversion. But the lights will more than do the trick if they are quality lights and if there are enough of them and if they are properly used/positioned.

About the same time as the thread, or shortly after, I read something about LED lighting, not grow lights but LED lighting in general, and a scientist that was working at either Lawrence Livermore Nat. Lab or Los Alamos Nat. Lab made some major breakthrough and built an LED light that was roughly the same size as an average handheld mirror, like women use to check the back of their hair. I do not recall the stats on the light but the piece said it put out more light than a spotlight and then made the comparison. The spotlight was not a tiny one like you might plug into a car cigarette lighter, it was a large high powered one.

The problem is the technology used/involved is so expensive that until the cost of it comes way down no one will ever use it and manufacture lights. If and when they do then someone will not need as many lights as the person whose thread I mentioned used. If and when that technology does drop in price enough to make it marketable it will be the death of HID lighting, in all uses. A single smaller LED light will be capable of matching or out producing HID lights and use far less energy in the process.

That might be a year away and it might be twenty years away but the technology exists today. It just has to drop in price before we will see it marketed.

Posted: **Tue Mar 30, 2010 9:09 pm**

LED Light penetration ?

Posted: **Sun Dec 05, 2010 3:42 pm**

Prawn Connery wrote:
ben ttech wrote:eventually...
your plants will seemingly grow in the dark...

youll turn on the light so that you can work...
youll see each of their leaves tented by a soapbubble like film...
whos underside is an array of microscopic leds bathing the photoreceptors from a fraction of an inch away...

wireless of course...
[great] idea! Of course, except when it comes time to wipe off the film . . . and your trichomes, too.

you know i had it figured that this film would be a simple array of areo stats. millions of tiny bubbles which arrange themselves based on geomagnetic principals; dialed specifically into the precise tune of the plants electromagnetic properties.

youd simple tune a bag full of them and then after opening it, they would float to and arrange themselves... homing in on the stomas aura.

whenever you wanted to get a good look at the leaves, manipulate the plant or harvest, you simple flip and switch somewhere and they in mass would rise off and return to the bag, or some other collection plate or surface.

like a cloud which technology in the near future will be able to command seemingly like magic

Posted: **Thu May 12, 2011 5:20 pm**

Experimenting w/ Triband 90W UFO with 90 Bridgelux LED lights. Just entering veg phase. Let you know how it works out, but so far, as good as a 400w halide. Using a 10 gal. fishtank hydro bubbler.

Specs:

LED Color: Red (70 pcs), Blue (10 pcs), Orange (10 pcs)
Wavelength: Red 630nm, Blue 460nm, Orange 610nm.
LED lifespan: 50,000 hours
Silver reflective sheet under LED
Overall dimension: 10 5/8" diameter, 2 3/8" thick
LED panel diameter: 5 7/8"
Input Voltage: 110v-220v

Posted: **Thu Oct 13, 2011 2:02 pm**

Yeah, two grows now using Triband 90W UFO with 90 Bridgelux LED lights would work fine if you live in a dorm, short of space and have security/power issues. Yield much lower than 400W Halide, but if I were in college, worth a consideration if lacking other resources.

Posted: **Thu Oct 13, 2011 3:03 pm**

One would naturally expect significantly lower yield at 90W vs. 400. The real question I suppose is relative yield per W.

Posted: **Mon Oct 17, 2011 1:25 pm**

per wattage yield....spit-balling it, was comparable to a 400W. But the small space requirement restricts what you can do with these with just one.

Posted: **Mon Oct 17, 2011 3:33 pm**

Hmmm... my understanding was that LED were supposed to be significantly more efficient (in the thermodynamic sense) than conventional incandescent/discharge lighting- at least in terms of lumens per W.

Any upsides for LEDs vs. conventional lighting?

Posted: **Mon Oct 17, 2011 10:18 pm**

Give me a yield per light or watt, that is what really matters, and of course the quality.

Posted: **Mon Oct 17, 2011 11:23 pm**

ledgrower on opengrow has alot of good reporting

https://www.opengrow.com/index.php?showtopic=42986&st=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

someone named jeffmans also doing ledgrows and weblazer likes both of their work

Posted: **Wed Oct 19, 2011 7:41 pm**

That is really impressive. LED's are coming of age. I just can't wait to hook one up to my E Cat.

Posted: **Fri Dec 23, 2011 10:20 pm**

Pretty intense lights at opengrow (and expensive as fuck). Mine was a little 90 Watt UFO...just threw another batch into bloom cycle and will share some photos in February if they make it that long.

Posted: **Sun Dec 25, 2011 1:54 am**

Merry Christmas Edge! Did I ever mention that I am a direct descendent of Shemp? The most under rated stooge.

Posted: **Wed Dec 28, 2011 12:24 am**

Merry Christmas and Happy New Years you goofballs!! lol.

Posted: **Wed Dec 28, 2011 8:08 am**

say that in Dutch

Posted: **Sat Jan 07, 2012 1:58 am**

lets see some buds baby

from them LED's

Thats alot of hook up for that light your showing vegging

Posted: **Tue Mar 27, 2012 2:20 pm**

Innovator
David Carroll Turns Fabric Into an Energy Source
By Drake Bennett on March 22, 2012 Tweet
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Boston's 'Innovation District' Eagerly Awaits More InnovatorsStory Buy a DIY Brain Supercharger for $100 The women in David Carroll’s life are big talkers, and that takes a toll on his cell phone battery. “My wife likes to call me, and she does take her time when she tells her stories,” he says. “You can watch the power meter just go down.” Carroll, a physicist and head of Wake Forest University’s Center for Nanotechnology and Molecular Materials, was discussing this problem last year with his 10-year-old daughter, Lauren, when she came up with a suggestion: What if Carroll could design something that harnessed the heat from someone’s hand, or from the phone itself, to give a cell phone battery more power? Carroll agreed that would be pretty cool.

Last month, Carroll’s lab unveiled a fabric that does just that. Called Power Felt, it generates electricity from heat. Wrap your cell phone in Power Felt, and it feeds off your body heat to recharge while it’s in your pocket. Carroll is a lifelong Southerner—he’s descended from some of North Carolina’s first white settlers, and his family donated some of the land that Wake Forest sits on—and he’s acutely aware of how powerful summer heat can be. He says Power Felt installed just under the roof of a house could be used to power household appliances. Lay it on the floor of a car and it could use the heat generated from sitting in a midday parking lot to run air conditioning and the radio. In an electric or a hybrid car, the Power Felt might even boost mileage.

The challenge for his team, says Carroll, was to create something that was electrically conductive—the way metal is—and thermally insulating—the way cloth can be. The solution was to imprint carbon nanotubes onto a woven mat of plastic fibers. Since it takes relatively few carbon nanotubes to give the fabric thermoelectric properties, the cost is reasonable. Carroll estimates that, at a large scale, Power Felt could be fabricated for as little as a dollar for a swatch big enough to cover a cell phone.

Carroll says he is in talks with more than 20 potential investors and collaborators—the defense and aerospace company Thales among them. Carl Batt, co-founder of Cornell University’s Nanobiotechnology Center, calls Carroll’s felt “an interesting approach” to generating power. “It’s a relatively untapped field.”

Fabrics have been one area in which the sometimes hyperbolic claims made for nanotechnology are being borne out. Engineers have been able to use nanopores and nanowhiskers—tiny holes and strands as thin as a single molecule—to make fabrics that kill bacteria and protect against hazardous chemicals.

Carroll believes Power Felt could fuel sensors worn on the body, perhaps embedded in clothing, that would allow doctors to keep track of patients’ health remotely. And wrapping consumer electronics in Power Felt, Carroll notes, is far cheaper than upgrading their batteries. “While I’ve been talking to you, the back of my phone has gotten hot,” he says. “Our $1 piece of fabric would give you the same amount of boost as a $50 battery would

Posted: **Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:45 am**

I'm currently planning a new LED light. This time made up primarily of white LED's, both warm and cool white. The last light I built works pretty well. This new one will be 40 LED s 20 warm, 20 cool, and the output will be about 35k lumens, pretty equivalent to a 400w HPS at 40k. They both will use about 400w pg power though. The main difference will be in the spectrum. The LEDs I think, even the white, will have a lot more PAR watts. I might have to enhance the spectrum wit a few 660nm 10W LEDs (these put out 4x the light watts as the 5W LEDs of my last light, so mad) because the spectrum falls off in that area with the whites.

Any ideas or suggestions?

Posted: **Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:51 am**

[image]http://www.newark.com/productimages/nio ... 440-30.jpg[/image]

The cree cxa1507. Output is 938 lumens cool white (5000k) and 815 lumens for warm white (3000k). They run at just over 7W each.

Packed edge to edge, 40 of them will fir in a 4"x5" space.They cost about $5 ea.

Driving them is going to be a pain.

Posted: **Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:58 am**

400W hps r 58000 lumens xesus , 35000 are just shy 60 %

Posted: **Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:02 pm**

Oh, when i googled it first answer I came across was 40k.

Posted: **Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:06 pm**

Ok now I got quite a few results at 50k lumens, more if you use a super hps.

I can add a few more LEDs.

Posted: **Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:27 pm**

jesus H Christ! this sounds cool. wanna to hear and see more on yer hardware as you move along.

Posted: **Fri Jan 18, 2013 7:50 am**

ya know jesus - mess with the best - die like the rest :D

in terms of lumens ^^

you can name them as you like; im pragmatic for such things ... blowin 400 W an hour through a bulb, it has to perform best with lumens; learned it the hard way

had some cheapo hps bulbs once ( 2 for the price of 1 greenpower) and plants didnt wanted to peprform as i was used to; things changed radically when i switched back to the greepower bulb; i dont know - its my personal "standard" bulb , all other bulbs need to compete with it and to proof if they are better; still didnt came across a dignified replacement

Posted: **Wed Jun 18, 2014 1:30 pm**

http://www.technologyreview.com/view/52 ... iv+Blog%29" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Posted: **Wed Feb 04, 2015 11:32 am**

good article malverde

its seems that determining which led's combinations is correct and proper for a specific plants grow needs a rocket scientist ability to feret out

the marketting of unit commercially available are certainly of no use other than faith

i would build one
had i any clue as to what lights i should be assembling

Posted: **Wed Feb 04, 2015 2:50 pm**

The optimized specific wavelegths for individual plant species thing is probably overblown. I'm not saying its not real, but cannabis will, I'm sure, grow fine under a general use mix of wavelengths--e.g. agriculture specific LEDs not tuned to any particular plant. Just as cannabis does fine in soil using general purpose fertilizer, and the bulk of claims made for cannabis specific fertilizers are hyperbolic. Remember, all plants evolved growing under the same spectra so there's a strong normative selective pressure dating back to the origin of terrestrial life. The advantages of LEDs are are essentially thermodynamic in nature, they are more thermodynamically efficient which in real world terms simply means they create less heat per useful lumen. If your grow environment is cool enough to benefit from heating, it's actually pretty much a wash between incandescent and LED lighting in an important sense. If, on the other hand, your grow environment requires cooling, then the LEDs gain a large advantage.

Posted: **Wed Feb 04, 2015 3:38 pm**

isnt there also the effecency gain in watts used to lumens produced compared to HPS and MH?

dont LED's produce the same light for half the electric cost of HID?

Posted: **Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:31 pm**

Yes, and yes(ish). The wasted electricity though in incandescents heats the room so if the grow space is heated anyway by an electric heater there are likely to be no real savings.

Posted: **Mon Feb 09, 2015 12:16 am**

what do you think of jesus choice in numbers of lamps and spectrum?

im looking to build an array suitable for a 3x3 flowering box
what the best choice these days for diy?

Posted: **Mon Feb 09, 2015 12:48 am**

jesus's
"of white LED's, both warm and cool white"
spectrum sounds good to me.

i use floros as yanno, alternating warm and cool whites tubes. works ok.
I don't see how using LEDs would be different in choosing spectrum.

Posted: **Mon Feb 09, 2015 5:36 am**

I've been thinking about experimenting with some "single chip" 100W leds this year.
Main problem is sorting out a driver.. they need around 30V at constant current, and I don't have a suitable PSU at the moment.
I can drive one at a time, but I'm thinking I'd like at least three per lighting unit.
They're available in colours, but I reckon a "cool white" will do quite well for vegging.

They'll also need a bit of heatsinking... may need to rip an old PC or two down.

Posted: **Tue Feb 10, 2015 12:22 am**

I've found any light source that looks reasonably "white" will work fine for growing if there are enough lumens. I in fact did fine for years growing starts for transplant under cheapo 48 inch, 89 cent "shop light" fluorescents. Carefully tuning the output wavelengths might buy you a few milligrams per watt of efficiency, but at what cost in time and money? Good enough is, as ever, good enough.

Posted: **Tue Feb 10, 2015 3:26 pm**

Bloke didja see this thread,
http://www.myplanetganja.com/viewtopic. ... 81#p136181" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The dx com is purty good inexpensive DIY site with inexpensive LEDs, one like the pic you posted above @~14$, and drivers, power supplies and more led parts for the DIYer.
http://www.dx.com/c/lights-lighting-139 ... parts-1329" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

and the obligatory link to a LED grow/setup:
https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/thr ... ows.64252/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Posted: **Tue Feb 10, 2015 3:45 pm**

Intrinsic wrote:Or
I was thinking ya could by use LED bulbs that are ready to screw into a standard light socket. make a panel of say 50 of these (5 x 10) for a 350 watt panel similar to one my fluoro panels. No need to hassle with drivers or step down voltage regulators.

7W 6500K White LED $4.59. Available in 6500 K or 3000k. Alternate them for a good plant spectrum
http://www.dx.com/p/xinyitong-e27-7w-60 ... BnjH2JcKyY" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I have been using that very lamp in my desk light for about a year now, for 7w it is brighter then the 23w curly floro bulb it replaced.
for whatever it is worth.

Posted: **Wed Feb 11, 2015 12:17 am**

interesting...

ive a client who goes in for the good stuff
bought some led floods for him
damn things cost nearly 50 bucks!

supposed to last forever though

he had some outdoor lights in places so high up
it would cost him 200 bucks to hire someone with a tall enough ladder who'd drive out to the remote local

heh

i put myself on a leash
and hung off the roof to swap em!

id a tarp over a couple sawhorses below
spread out like that firemans rig
for catching people jumping out of buildings

just in case i dropped the bulb

probably not the smartest thing ive ever done

these days im flat bust
figured building an array would be the most economical avenue
given i cant bump the electrical bill here much

but i will definately compare my parts list with those bulbs
hadnt even though of doing it that way

thanks!

Posted: **Sat Apr 16, 2016 9:13 am**

Any of you following Heliospectra's work?
http://hortidaily.com.via.snip.ly/869ve ... J-facility" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Posted: **Sun Apr 17, 2016 5:42 pm**

All my grow experience says. Outdoors is risky. I end up falling back on my own seeds to have anything. Seasons come and seasons go. Hot cold. When I invest in a seed now its indoors. In winter less heating costs. So in summer there will be no outdoor grows due to several things including a new neighbor moved in nearby.

Empty for years.

Growing inside is the best way to go. Control of the environment if you have the money. AC..

A good LED would not require me to install an AC

If it would grow big buds. But it won't yet right?

Posted: **Sun Apr 17, 2016 5:46 pm**

Im not a scientist and I didn't vote for Bill Nye the Science Guy I'd say there is some people promoting their selfish motives over the best thing for all humans in the world.

Posted: **Sun Apr 17, 2016 5:51 pm**

Just saying as an ex marketing guy who hated being a marketing guy cause grannys get suckered just because they are grannys.

Ok uh ok that brings up the question. I got this one email from grannytoofless83@sucker.com

* I retraced the call and turned out was a vaccuumn cleaner sales company.

**After I checked her out she saw Iit and pmd me hey bitch... "yuou don't trust me? What am I just some internet whore to you?

***I have a lawsuit filed now for return of my $993.87.

Posted: **Sun Apr 17, 2016 5:52 pm**

Don't exagerate and over advertise what your product can do.

And you will gain the trust of your customers.

Posted: **Sun Apr 17, 2016 8:52 pm**

just the facts moon!

we need deran in now...

Posted: **Thu Apr 21, 2016 1:57 pm**

huh

who called me ? :P

our best selling model atm is the panel from bonsai hero :
http://www.bonsaihero.com/index.php/led ... t-180-watt" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

furthermore, customers are intrested in sanlight`s:
http://sanlight.info/EN/Startpage/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

and purple alien is also intresting to some:
https://www.led-grow-shop.de/Purple-Ali ... 0:::8.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

of course its best to build your own, you just have to know things .. to be honest im not really up to date which chip is the hottest new thing; but all i can say is that those cob`s (not cali orang bud, but chip on board) have an CRI (color rendering index) of 80 , that means the spectrum / color is 80% that of the sun, and to my best knowledge, no growing lamp has such high values except plasma lamps, which arent really into mainstream growing imho ... so what are you left with, mh and hps which both have criminal CRI`s compared to leds, that perform as they do .. gram / watt and so on .. well with leds you can easyly double the outcome

time has come that i became intrested into leds ... so its time for you too ... lol ...

im sure things will get better with time, but at this moment, the rtansition has laready been made from the technical point of view, only negative thing ... leds are an established market, they have nothing to do with growing .. so that means, prices will stay that high for 5 to 10 years

its up to you, to make a mathematical formula that will show if such a big investment is going to pay off within a timeframe thats acceptable to you ...

half of my customers are more tha satisfied with leds the other half isnt, somehow like any other product .. 1 will say its great, the other one will say its shit ... lol

Posted: **Thu Apr 21, 2016 10:00 pm**

You cant do a basement grow 40 plant grow with LED yet.

economically

Small yes

4 to 6 feet tall no

not yet.. best wishes

Posted: **Thu Apr 21, 2016 10:05 pm**

If I had the money and I wanted to find out current limits I'd do wall to wall to wall to ceiling

But why? costs more than HPS

when you compare the size of the marijuana bud!? duh!

leetle small chemically want warm chickie babies

Posted: **Fri Apr 22, 2016 4:05 am**

you can

bc of the turnover and the savings of power, no bulb changes, no additional AC ...

you sghouold learn to use google, this way you might find pics of buds that are bigger than hps buds

do the math

Posted: **Wed Apr 27, 2016 6:51 pm**

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ert3fmYQlk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9gdoTO3_kw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

and

some newer shit (without subtitles)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhD3VgWVqKo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LisoU_UKdk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Posted: **Wed Apr 27, 2016 7:33 pm**

Im going to be hard to convince

for now.

Things have improved and future is there.

Long ways to go.

Posted: **Sat Jun 04, 2016 2:05 pm**

Has anybody done a tutorial on building one of these?

Posted: **Sat Jun 04, 2016 2:34 pm**

I did find this one. https://www.circuitsathome.com/diy-2/hi ... -build-log" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Posted: **Sat Jun 04, 2016 6:31 pm**

Are commercial growers using them yet in places where growing for rec sales is legal?

Posted: **Sat Jun 04, 2016 10:55 pm**

Probably. The results are very impressive and scale makes it more so.

Posted: **Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:22 am**

1200w LED 329.00 through Amazon. It might be time to switch. https://www.amazon.com/product-reviews/B01J19AGRM" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Posted: **Thu Feb 08, 2018 4:25 am**

It's really only a 550w fixture. And it's not full spectrum, either. You'd be better off trying to find a normal white LED fixture in a warmer kelvin range for flowering.

Posted: **Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:50 am**

I see 5 different models there but if it is false advertising I would like to know about it so please elaborate?

Posted: **Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:39 am**

Compare that with the heliospectra that sells for about 2 dollars per watt.
Spectral Distribution G Type: 450nm, 660nm, and 5700K white
C Type: 450nm, 660nm, 735nm, and 5700K white
Power Consumption 10.5 to 630 W
Photon flux (µmol/s) 862 to 1011 µmol/s (full spectrum in stable operation and 25 ºC ambient temperature. Photon flux value varies based on “C” or “G” Plate Type)
Optics LX601 | LX501: Indoor
LX602 | LX502: Greenhouse
Made of high transparency, clear acrylic glass. No visible yellowing rated to 30 years
Control Interface Web browser system for intuitive light recipe management
Connectivity Wifi and/or Ethernet
Certifications MET Certified to UL 1598 & CSA C22.2, CE, RoHS, REACH, EN55015
Warranty 3 years.

Posted: **Sat Feb 10, 2018 2:33 am**

If you follow the Amazon link you posted (click on product name) it states 568w: https://www.amazon.com/MEIZHI-Reflector ... op?ie=UTF8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There's a lot of confusing advertising around LEDs. For example, how can a "1200w" LED fixture really only be less than half that?

Well, the maximum drive capacity may be 1200w - that is, the fixture has a total of 240x 5w LEDs - but LEDs are almost never driven at full capacity (full, continuous operational wattage). They are usually driven at 40-60% of capacity.

Driving a LED softer than full capacity has three advantages: lumen efficiency (they put out more light per watt); thermal efficiency (they run cooler, and cool LEDs run more efficiently that hot LEDs for the same wattage); and lifespan (running at full capacity generates more heat that reduces LED life).

So that's why all these fixtures claim to be 1200w but, if you read the fine print, only draw 568w. Of that 568w, about 70w is being consumed by the drivers (similar to a ballast on a HID), so there is really only about 500w being converted to LED light.

Samsung LED veg frame

Flowering frames

4 weeks

5 weeks

I run strip LEDs, which I built myself. My two flowering frames have a total capacity of 691w, but my two drivers are 240w each for a total of 480w total power (the drivers can be overdriven to 280w each for a total of 560w, but that's another story).

Right now, I'm running each driver at 200w for a total of 400w over a 4'x2' area. I'm in the middle of harvest at the moment, but based on what I've pulled so far, I'll end up with over a pound. It's my first LED grow, so much to dial in, but reasonable figures nonetheless.

So my frame is equivalent to the link you posted. Mine actually cost a little more to build than yours is to buy.

Why? Probably because I'm running Samsung LM561C 3000K LEDs which are among the most efficient LEDs on the market at the moment. I'm also running Mean Well drivers, which are the industry standard and have a seven year warranty.

My frames are passive cooled - so no fans to break or make noise. And the LEDs are full spectrum, which put out light from 380nm-800nm:

[image]https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1538/ ... 1515717917[/image]
Full spectrum lights contain all the wavelengths that the "blurple" (blue, red combo) LED fixtures have, but with no gaps in the spectrum, and much more efficient design. It's also generally accepted now that while red light is needed for flowering and blue light for overall growth, green also plays a very important role in photosynthesis, as well as canopy penetration and lower bud development.

All this is just a way of saying that I'm sure you could grow decent plants with the Chinese light you posted, and it is very reasonably priced, but there's no way it will replace 1200w of HPS. No way. I reckon my 400w of LED would replace 600w of HPS through efficiency gains and better spectrum and your fixture would probably be about the same (because it will be less efficient than mine).

As for fixture life, I can't comment. But from what I've read, you could get a good one that lasts a few years or not. You're probably only going to want to use it for 2-3 years anyway, as developments in LED horticulture technology are accelerating so fast, there's something bigger and better out every six months or so. My 180+lpw LEDs have already been superseded by the new 200+lpw Samsung LM301B chips.

Posted: **Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:37 pm**

How close together would you put those 200+ ? All I can find is a press release. No prices.

Posted: **Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:05 pm**

I found DigiKey Electronics but I am getting a headache trying to find that model. It may not be for sale yet.
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/ ... ND/7562243" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Posted: **Sun Feb 11, 2018 1:30 am**

That's the new Q Series strip using the latest LM301B 3030 chips.

My LM561C strips are here:

Veg board F Series 5000K 560x40mm: https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/ ... ND/6624008" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Flowering board H Series 3000K 560x18mm: https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/ ... ND/6149745" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The veg frame strips (top photo) are about 90mm apart, while the flower frame strips are about 50mm apart. The flower frame has 2x H Series strips mounted side-by side for each aluminium U channel, which is why they look like double-row strips. The F Series strips are double row (they also come in single row)

Those 4 F Series strips are equal to 12 H Series strips in terms of number of LEDs. I went with the H Series for the flowering frame as they allowed better light distribution and less heat with the 6-channel set-up vs 4-channel for the F Series veg frame.

Posted: **Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:51 pm**

I found those 301 B's, in China. https://www.alibaba.com/trade/search?fs ... 301b+strip" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Posted: **Tue Feb 27, 2018 6:35 am**

Be careful buying anything off Alibaba as there are many cases of them selling fake LEDs that are not what they are advertised as. For example, quite a few guys on RIU bought LED boards that were supposed to be LM561C S6 (top) bins, but turned out to be lower quality (and cheaper) LM561B chips: http://www.rollitup.org/search/65871261 ... s&o=date&c" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;[title_only]=1&c[node]=124

It's real easy to get ripped off if you don't know what you're looking at, as the chips can appear almost identical and you need a PAR meter to work out if they are performing the way they should.

My suggestion: by Samsung strips from Digikey or Arrow, or look into Quantum Boards or similar. RIU has loads of info on LED builds - everything you need to educate yourself and give you an idea of where you want to go.

http://www.rollitup.org/f/led-and-other-lighting.124/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Posted: **Tue Feb 27, 2018 2:36 pm**

i thought i posted already the link to growmau5 adventures

very well explained tutorials on how to build your own, just in case some missed the link i posted .... somewhere in here ... hehe

enjoy

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPSwmw ... 6rw/videos" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Posted: **Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:53 am**

301Bs (Q Series Samsung strips) are coming down in price. But F Series (LM561C) are still the best value. I just bought 10 more 2' strips for a couple of vegging frames I'm building for a commercial friend.

Posted: **Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:14 pm**

Check out this monster 500 watt LED.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-hQXaxO-cc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

myPlanetGanja.com

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Cree Breaks 200 Lumen Per Watt Efficacy Barrier

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