MSNBC Monstrosity

[ben ttech]

no brain
no mind
no child
no person
no rights

[Butcher Bob]

"No where in the judeo Christian Bible does it condemn abortion."

So it advocates for abortion?

You are being disingenuous...the bible didn't mention cars either, as neither were considerations when the canons were written...
...well except that part aboot spilling your seed on the ground, which was aboot pro-creation, not anti-masterbation like many folks think.

[ripper5]

^^Maga accusing anyone else of being disingenuous.

No matter how much you want the Bible to have condemned abortion as murder, it simply didn’t. It very clearly classified it as a property crime, rendering it entirely permitted to anyone who paid the appropriate taxes and fees.

[Butcher Bob]

"No matter how much you want the Bible to have condemned abortion as murder, it simply didn’t. It very clearly classified it as a property crime, rendering it entirely permitted to anyone who paid the appropriate taxes and fees."

The religious texts are what they are...I have no desire to mold them into anything. I am merely pointing out that you are talking shit.
For instance...please point out the scripture that says abortion is a property crime...bet you can't.

[ripper5]

Well, as usual, you're wrong

"The New Testament never mentions abortion; except when Paul metaphorically calls himself one in 1 Corinthians 15:8 (which Bible translations conceal behind euphemisms: see the interlinear), but he wasn’t discussing its legality or morality. There is in fact only one passage in the Bible that does mention anything applicable to the notion: Exodus 21:22-25. And that passage actually permits it.

One way to figure out what this text originally meant is to go look at how the ancient Rabbis translated it into Greek in the Septuagint, which for verse 22 is as follows:

ἐὰν δὲ μάχωνται δύο ἄνδρες, “if two men fight,” καὶ πατάξωσιν γυναῗκα ἐν γαστρὶ ἔχουσαν, “and strike a woman carrying in [her] womb,” καὶ ἐξέλθῃ τὸ παιδίον αὐτῆς, “and her baby comes out,” μὴ ἐξεικονισμένον, “and it is not fully formed,” ἐπιζήμιον ζημιωθήσεται, “a penalty he will suffer,” καθότι ἂν ἐπιβάλῃ ὁ ἀνὴρ τῆς γυναικός δώσει, “giving according to the judgment of the woman’s husband,” μετὰ ἀξιώματος, “as is befitting,” ἐὰν δὲ ἐξεικονισμένον ἦν δώσει ψυχὴν ἀντὶ ψυχῆς, “but if it was fully formed, he will give life for life.”

Here it is clear what is meant by “harm following” and “harm not following”: if a fully-formed fetus comes out, meaning a viable baby who dies from the premature birth, that’s “harm follows,” and anything else is equivalent to a mere miscarriage, in which case “harm does not follow.” No viable baby was lost. This makes clear that only what we would call a late term abortion is murder; and indeed, the Bible doesn’t really even say that as such, since this is an involuntary abortion (an assault), but it’s reasonable to assume Jewish courts would deem a woman who sought an abortion as then the one committing the crime—either a property crime against her husband if she aborts before the third trimester, or murder if afterward. So this passage does support declaring late-term abortions murder; but it actually is declaring all other abortions permissible—all you need do is compensate the father for the resulting financial loss and (maybe) pay a tax. Essentially, as worded, women could legally pay their husbands and the state to let them have an abortion. That’s God’s law."

https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/17319

[ben ttech]

abortions were performed by priests in the bible
they would administer aborto-factants to women hos husbands accrued them of infidelity


its extinct now but there was a plant that grew on Mediterranean islands that would cause miscarriage if eaten...

[Butcher Bob]

Did you read what you've quoted?

"This makes clear that only what we would call a late term abortion is murder..."

Well up until this point, they've called it "miscarriage", this is a bait and switch, but let's continue...

"...the Bible doesn’t really even say that as such..."

That's right, just like I tried to tell you.

And everything from there...

"...but it’s reasonable to assume Jewish courts would..."

...is an assumption.




"abortions were performed by priests in the bible"

Quote the scripture Ben, or I'm calling bullshit on you too.



Sorry guys, I've been through that book in entirety three times...ain't nothing aboot abortion.
I would have remembered if there was, because it would have made for great Thanksgiving dinner conversation fodder in my family.

[ripper5]

^^Sorry Bob but you don't know what you're talking about. Have you actually read the Bible?
It's repleat with examples of "god's" mass murder of all, including children, and fetuses too.
How could any honest person come to any other conclusion, which also explains why it's not singled out as important, anywhere, not by Adam, Noah, Moses, Jesus,....

What amazes me about all the Christian pro-life movement is the complete denial of the countless babies and pregnant women that god has smote over the centuries as recorded in their bible.

First of all he wiped out the entire human race except for Noah, Mrs. Noah and their six sons and daughters-in-law. Drowned them all like unwanted kittens. He clearly didn’t give a rat’s ass about those babies, even though as an all-powerful being he could have easily found a less heinous solution.

And let’s not forget about the tenth plague which was the death of the firstborn of Egypt in Exodus 11:4-6:

"Thus says the LORD: About midnight I will go forth in the midst of Egypt; and all the first-born in the land of Egypt shall die, from the first-born of Pharaoh who sits upon his throne, even to the first-born of the maidservant who is behind the mill; and all the first-born of the cattle. And there shall be a great cry throughout all the land of Egypt, such as there has never been, nor ever shall be again.“

It sounds like he is sort of proud of this plague, doesn’t it? The really sick thing is that god admittedly hardened Pharaoh's heart so he wouldn’t let the Hebrew people go and ruin all god’s fun. So this is another example of god killing babies, and, I am assuming, unborn babies as well.

1 Samuel 15:3 god says,

“Now go and strike Amalek and utterly destroy all that he has, and do not spare him; but put to death both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.”


Again god has absolutely no regard for the sanctity of human life—not even infants. How can Christians cite god as a source for being pro-life? Clearly they haven’t read their own bibles.

My personal favorite Bizarro bible scripture is Psalms 137:9,

“ Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.”

So the next time you want to mess with a Christian's mind, ask them to explain why a god who is so against abortions can so callously and easily kill millions of babies without a blink of his celestial eye? God made them in their mother’s wombs so he could have a little fun and kill them shortly thereafter? And we wicked humans are supposed to be the sinners who need saving by him?

https://new.exchristian.net/2011/02/god ... r.html?m=1

[roller24]

You can find a justification for almost any act of man within the bible.
Preachers have cherry picked the book many times to sway peoples thinking.

I didn't intend this topic to be a debate on abortion, but the absurdity of that bitch dismissing the premise of individual freedoms and rights which is the keystone of American law, to demonize on portion of society that holds values contrary to her own.

What she dismisses in reality, is that American law and upholding of individual rights is what led to woman being able to have abortions to begin with.

It will always be an issue of debate because also in American law is the protection of infringement upon others to enjoy those same freedoms.
Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness. Abortion denies the first in every literal sense.

Oh but it's not a life yet.. still a subject that is debatable beyond conclusion.

If I walked up to the beach right now, and gathered eggs from turtle nests, I would be criminally charged, fined, and perhaps imprisoned.

[ripper5]

You can find a justification for almost any act of man within the bible.

Where's all the justifications for all those murderous acts of God throughout? "Mysterious ways" ~ in other words they don't have an extra clue.

Preachers have cherry picked the book many times to sway peoples thinking.

That's true.

I didn't intend this topic to be a debate on abortion, but the absurdity of that bitch dismissing the premise of individual freedoms and rights which is the keystone of American law, to demonize on portion of society that holds values contrary to her own.

When they preach from the rooftops they need to expect scrutiny.
She simply claimed that maga thinks our laws are given by their biblical God, and that's wrong.
The ones I know, friends & family, personally believe along those lines. That stands in contrast to "By the people, for the people."

What she dismisses in reality, is that American law and upholding of individual rights is what led to woman being able to have abortions to begin with.

I didn't hear any of that. Where did she say that? Not in the vid.

It will always be an issue of debate because also in American law is the protection of infringement upon others to enjoy those same freedoms.
Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness. Abortion denies the first in every literal sense.

Actually, an egg or fetus doesn't enjoy citizenship until they're born.

Oh but it's not a life yet.. still a subject that is debatable beyond conclusion.

Not at all. We celebrate and record a life beginning with a birth certificate, and end it with a death certificate. In between we celebrate birthdays...not conception day or half developed fetus day...

If I walked up to the beach right now, and gathered eggs from turtle nests, I would be criminally charged, fined, and perhaps imprisoned.

That's because they are endangered fellow earthling life forms that need a helping hand to help counter all the harm we've done them. Nobody is trying to claim that those turtle eggs are in fact as alive as when they finally wake up and head for the surf though.