Open carry = open season for cops

[Prawn Connery]

I have an irrational fear of the irrational.

See I, too, have an interesting story from childhood. A true story. I lived in a capital city where cops never carried guns.

And yet, it was also a time when simple men could own semi-automatic rifles. When school children could carry .303 Enfields on the bus on their way home from army cadets. When practically everyone I knew had a rifle or shotgun or both in their cupboard.

But handguns were banned. Go figure.

Queue Bob's predictable retort: "Ah, so you must have an irrational fear of handguns!"

No, Bob. I'm not afraid of handguns. It is a universal truth that what people fear most is the unknown.

[webeblzr]

Being the son of a soldier, I was around guns, target shooting, since I was 6-7 year old. Got a 22 caliber single shot rifle, for my 8th birthday.
When we would shoot at targets, I got 3 rounds. Make a shot, go look at it.
When I went to shoot, I had to have an adult with me.
We'd shoot rats at the town dump, and again, some corn would bait an area, then I was given a bullet. Only chambered when something was seen. They taught to me to take my time, slow my breathing down, squeeze, over pulling the trigger.
Safety was POUNDED into me. I was a bit thick as kid, but the fear of commies coming for us and being ready for a great war, was far more important to them, and teaching me proper gun handling.
In the 70's, I found the smoke sticks, and loved shooting them. The only gun I own now, a flint repo kit I built in 1974.
If I'm not mistaken, I believe it was Switzerland that is the most armed country, with the least gun related deaths??
It was due to mandatory military service, and once out, they keep all their gear they trained with.
Hell I have no idea why we (as in Americans) are so quick to shoot before any indication of real trouble.

[Prawn Connery]

Hell I have no idea why we (as in Americans) are so quick to shoot before any indication of real trouble.

I believe it's cultural. Switzerland never had a "Wild West" or the mentality that went with it. Handguns can be purchased, but are much less common than longarms. Concealed carry is very, very rare and you need a good reasons to carry a concealed weapon.

What makes people nervous is what they don't know. If you see someone carrying a rifle, well it's out in the open and usually for a reason: hunting or whatever. It's usually predictable.

But when people conceal handguns, well it all becomes a bit suspicious. The owner may have the best intent, but other people don't know that. The concealed weapon is concealed to create that ambiguity, and its purpose is nearly always to use against another human being – in either an offensive or defensive scenario.

And that's kind of the point of this thread. Concealed carry creates an aura of everyone being armed and prepared to use that firearm on another person for whatever reason. It makes people nervous. Even people like myself who have also been around firearms most of my life.

If you're a cop – or anyone else for that matter – you can usually see a longarm coming, which gives you time to take whatever course of action you choose. But you can't see a concealed weapon coming, and that's what makes people nervous. With or without justification.

On a side note, I'll just add that a longarm physically cannot be handled by a child in the same manner as a small handgun, so you have to be a certain age to even pick one up, let alone start waving it at people (siblings or friends).

Of course, in some ways this is all moot. In the US, you have so many guns that it is impossible to even start restricting certain types of weapon. Handguns were pretty much banned across Australia after WWII, and so after a while they almost ceased to exist. Criminals couldn't get them because they weren't being made or imported. There was nowhere to steal or acquire them from. So cops didn't need to carry them either, as they were very unlikely to come up agains someone armed with another handgun. If they were on the street and saw someone using a longarm, they called in a car, which usually had a rifle or shotgun onboard, or a specialist team.

Practically speaking, a handgun is never going to outshoot a long arm at distances over 25-50m, so if I were carrying a handgun and came up against someone with a rifle at any distance over, say 50-100m, I'm running the other way. And I know how to shoot.

[ripper5]

^^^Those are some fine looking firearms. I don't personally know much about guns in general.

The main difference between those and what we were issued back in the day would obviously be the craftsmanship & quality, but most noticeable is the old open sites of the m16 series. I guess you had to be a dedicated sniper or special forces in the Army to get to use the good stuff.

[ripper5]

@ 1:05

[Prawn Connery]

^^^Those are some fine looking firearms. I don't personally know much about guns in general.

The main difference between those and what we were issued back in the day would obviously be the craftsmanship & quality, but most noticeable is the old open sites of the m16 series. I guess you had to be a dedicated sniper or special forces in the Army to get to use the good stuff.

The Sakos are made in Finland and come with a 5-shot sub-MOA guarantee. If you can't put 5 shots into an inch at 100y they replace the rifle. In reality, the ones I own are even more accurate, as the top rifle has been pillar bedded to ensure it doesn't move in the stock and the next one down has an aluminium bedding block system from the factory, so is rock steady. I also reload my own ammo and spend a lot of time prepping and measuring, so that makes a difference too.

Remington 700s are considered the "350 Chevy" of the target shooting world because so many parts are made for them that you can customise them to be very accurate, but a lot of the European rifles are very good right out of the box. I also shoot iron sights and it's surprising how accurate they can be. Scopes with high magnification really amplify the "wobble", so put a lot of people off and can even be detrimental to accurate shooting.

The M16s weren't that well regarded in the Aussie military as they were susceptible to jamming when they got dirty – which is why I suspect you guys had to go to such lengths to keep them clean. The FAL 7.62mm was a heavy rifle but very reliable. It had a progressive gas block system that allowed the weapon to keep cycling at the twist of a knob (to increase gas back-pressure) when it got dirty. 5.56 is a lot nicer to shoot than 7.62 though.

[ripper5]

^Yes indeed. The m16s were considered junk as you know lol. Plastic stock and grip made by Mattel toy company.

During training, they didn't let us fire at full auto very often, but it was a blast when they did! Usually, we just did the marksmanship qualification every 6 months. I couldn't remember and had to look it up, the distances on our qualifying ranges.

5 meters to 300 meters (approximately 80 to 327 yards).

Popup silhouette targets usually

[rSin]

back in the late 80's my roommate was in sherrifs academy,

i remember him telling me once they were supposed to shoot any dog on a scene they had iniciated because even a docile dog could jump up and bite you and they wernt supposed to take that chance.



i think alot of whats the problem is the police being trained not to take any chances

[Solid Gold Butt Plug]

I like the .357….The Roger GP100 is what’s known as a million round gun, it’s a very solid gun….The Smith & Wesson is just a nice gun.
I also have a bolt action and lever action .357, I like to have hand guns and rifles in the same caliber.

[Jesús Malverde]

Civilians should have to leave their handguns locked up at the range. They have no place running loose in a civil society.