myPlanetGanja.com

Intrinsic wrote: ↑

Fri Sep 10, 2021 10:00 am

What does the booster do? It prevents people from dying in hospitals... You might still catch COVID-19, but if you’re home sick with flu-like symptoms and nothing more, that sure as hell beats being intubated in a hospital as your organs shut down.

...Pfizer...

Butcher Bob wrote: ↑

Fri Sep 10, 2021 3:09 pm

Just a couple wrenches...

Intrinsic wrote: ↑

Fri Sep 10, 2021 10:00 am

What does the booster do? It prevents people from dying in hospitals... You might still catch COVID-19, but if you’re home sick with flu-like symptoms and nothing more, that sure as hell beats being intubated in a hospital as your organs shut down.

You do know that's not true, right?
Over 12,000 vacinated folks have been hospitalized...over 600 of those died.
So...why you lying?

...Pfizer...

Sure, they're to be trusted.
Google "largest criminal fine in history"...see who's name shows up.
Hint...it's for healthcare fraud.

Not to mention, as we all knew, they only cared about FDA approval when it suited their talking points. “It’s not approved, it’s ‘experimental!’” Final approval for the Pfizer vaccine didn’t change any of their minds.

...jus sayin'.

Roots wrote: ↑

Fri Sep 10, 2021 5:17 pm

Where did you get 6k from, this was less than a month ago

>>>”The new data suggests 1,507 people (about 0.001%) of those fully vaccinated people died from COVID-19.”

Roots wrote: ↑

Fri Sep 10, 2021 3:18 pm

Your stats don't prove what he said isn't true.

Intrinsic wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 11, 2021 7:28 pm

No we're not moving away from anything. "Mandatory" vaccinations have been the norm since I was born.
I've had vaccinations, no choice, I know you did too.
Which is a good thing and now with mRNA Tech even better.

WhiteHotAfterburner wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 11, 2021 7:33 pm

Intrinsic wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 11, 2021 7:28 pm

No we're not moving away from anything. "Mandatory" vaccinations have been the norm since I was born.
I've had vaccinations, no choice, I know you did too.
Which is a good thing and now with mRNA Tech even better.

Mandatory ONLY if you engage in that activity. IF you don't engage in that activity NONE of it is "Mandatory".

Intrinsic wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 11, 2021 7:51 pm

WhiteHotAfterburner wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 11, 2021 7:33 pm

Intrinsic wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 11, 2021 7:28 pm

No we're not moving away from anything. "Mandatory" vaccinations have been the norm since I was born.
I've had vaccinations, no choice, I know you did too.
Which is a good thing and now with mRNA Tech even better.

Mandatory ONLY if you engage in that activity. IF you don't engage in that activity NONE of it is "Mandatory".

No. Childhood vaccines and Military vaccines I had no choice over. Neither did you.

Otherwise Same as covid-19 vaccine.
don't take it, only mandatory if going in public. otherwise stay at home, wear a mask in public, get tested regular and restrict social participation.

Or get your head out of your ass and it's not mandatory, you just doing the right thing regardless.

=Intrinsic wrote:No. Childhood vaccines and Military vaccines I had no choice over. Neither did you.

IT will NOT pass Constitutional scrutiny

Butcher Bob wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 11, 2021 12:07 pm

My only point was to show there is disinformation on both sides.

Roots wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 11, 2021 2:08 pm

People who play a weak game of semantics are a waste of time.

Intrinsic wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 11, 2021 8:17 pm

It's not just protecting the vaccinated it's protecting the those of the population that can't get the vaccination children and those with medical vulnerable. ..

And now with the delta variant the unmasked unvaccinated are putting the Vaccinated at more risk. Now we still have to wear masks in public because unvaxxed refusing to wear masks.

Intrinsic wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 11, 2021 8:17 pm

Fact is the majority of the vaccinated are not getting the virus. Even less getting sick even less get into the hospital.

The majority that are getting the virus and going to the hospital are the unvaccinated. And even a larger unvaccinated majority are dying.

Hence vaccinations work


It's not just protecting the vaccinated it's protecting the those of the population that can't get the vaccination children and those with medical vulnerable. ..

Won't someone think of the children.. oh right Biden did.

And now with the delta variant the unmasked unvaccinated are putting the Vaccinated at more risk. Now we still have to wear masks in public because unvaxxed refusing to wear masks.

CDC Director Rochelle Walensky wrote: ... insisted as recently as July 30 that "there will be no federal [vaccination] mandate," saying "I completely understand the pushback" against earlier comments she made that were interpreted as an endorsement of that policy. Around the same time, White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki said requiring vaccination is "not the role of the federal government" but should instead be left to "institutions, private-sector entities, and others."

Blunderful Biden wrote: ... made a moral case for that policy. "This is not about freedom or personal choice," he said.

Blunderful wrote:"Biden Morphed Into 'Old Man Yelling at Clouds' During Ground Zero Remembrance"

Where you veer off the path is insisting the Federal Government can demand - on their whim - a Free Man (non-gender specific) inject into THEIR OWN bodies

Oh please....stop with the bullshit

Intrinsic wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 11, 2021 11:44 pm

whab, you're a idiot, what the hell does all that Biden bashing have to do with that poor girl dying after echoing misinformation. Jesus H! I even pasted up a story that had lots of pictures. Even if Joe 'n Tony we're evil incarnated aliens in disguise.
It has nothing to do with covid-19 vaccinations, not dying and Infecting your loved ones.

Intrinsic wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 11, 2021 11:54 pm

Still has nothing to do with the poor girl being misinformed and dying. idiot and stubborn fool.

Intrinsic wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 11, 2021 11:32 pm

What bs? Specifically? You must be reading something into what I said that I didn't say.
Cuz Jen Psaki answer totally own pwnd him, for the umpteenth time. Which is confusing why you would post that.

roller24 wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 13, 2021 5:41 am

]
Science
Dr cottrel was one of the first scientists who studied the sequencing of the genome. his studies did not fit the narrative so all of his content was removed from YouTube.
He explains why there is a low probability of a natural occurrence. And also explains the RNA Factor of the vaccine and virus.

Dr cottrel was one of the first scientists who studied the sequencing of the genome

The novel SARS-CoV-2 coronavirus that emerged in the city of Wuhan, China, last year and has since caused a large scale COVID-19 epidemic and spread to more than 70 other countries is the product of natural evolution, according to findings published yesterday (March 17, 2020) in the journal Nature Medicine.

The analysis of public genome sequence data from SARS-CoV-2 and related viruses found no evidence that the virus was made in a laboratory or otherwise engineered.

“By comparing the available genome sequence data for known coronavirus strains, we can firmly determine that SARS-CoV-2 originated through natural processes,” said Kristian Andersen, PhD, an associate professor of immunology and microbiology at Scripps Research and corresponding author on the paper.

In addition to Andersen, authors on the paper, “The proximal origin of SARS-CoV-2,” include Robert F. Garry, of Tulane University; Edward Holmes, of the University of Sydney; Andrew Rambaut, of University of Edinburgh; W. Ian Lipkin, of Columbia University.

...

Prawn Connery wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:24 am

roller24 wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 13, 2021 5:41 am

]
Science
Dr cottrel was one of the first scientists who studied the sequencing of the genome. his studies did not fit the narrative so all of his content was removed from YouTube.
He explains why there is a low probability of a natural occurrence. And also explains the RNA Factor of the vaccine and virus.

Roller, the problem with that video is that "Dr" Cottrell is not a medical doctor – he has a PhD in finance – and has no experience in genomic sequencing. Despite his claims of being a "candidate" for a Biology degree, he has no biological or medical credentials.

The kicker for me? After talking shit about his Parallel BLAST search "genome study", he then goes on to talk about the end of the world and collapse of financial markets, blah, blah, blah and doesn't even try to disguise his real agenda. Which is stoking the NWO conspiracy theories that you so love to read and readily agree with.

Sorry mate. Nice try, but no banana

Intrinsic wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:21 am

roller24 wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 13, 2021 7:09 pm

.. .His youtube channel has no videos now, I don't know the story of why.
...

" don't think that the issue of covid origins is fully known, "

You don't deny that bioweapon technology exists, and it's the labs like Wuhan that exist for their benefit as well.

roller24 wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:50 pm

I had a full discussion on this theory with my daughter who is a forensic microbiologist and she does work specifically with covid-19. She is also worked with crisper which is the gene designer. She worked in the forensic microbiology for the department of defense for 3 years and now she's the chief operating officer of a covid company working with movie studios. So we've had some pretty long discussions about this and I won't post anything until she says it's accurate. It's not a banana but how do you like them apples.

The new world order is not a conspiracy theory mate.
Yale University says so.

Neither the Government of Australia.

Jesús Malverde wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 13, 2021 3:54 pm

https://www.reddit.com/r/HermanCainAward/

This is some sweet uplifting schadenfreude here. Watch the goateed old Trumper walruses go from bellowing about "fake Covid", "living in fear", and how masks kill one week, calling for "Prayer Warriors" ( ) to save them from their own idiocy two weeks later, then two weeks after that there's the GoFundMe socialism to pay for the mess their militant idiocy left behind for the family members they didn't infect and kill first.

Prawn Connery wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:13 pm

roller24 wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:50 pm

I had a full discussion on this theory with my daughter who is a forensic microbiologist and she does work specifically with covid-19. She is also worked with crisper which is the gene designer. She worked in the forensic microbiology for the department of defense for 3 years and now she's the chief operating officer of a covid company working with movie studios. So we've had some pretty long discussions about this and I won't post anything until she says it's accurate. It's not a banana but how do you like them apples.

The new world order is not a conspiracy theory mate.
Yale University says so.

Neither the Government of Australia.

Hate to break it to you roller, but your daughter is not a geneticist and has not done any genomic sequencing of the SARS-CoV-2 virus.

No disrespect to your daughter – I'm sure she's a lovely person – but when you find someone who knows what they're talking about to back up YouTube Guy's theory, then I will stop blowing you the raspberry.

ge·net·i·cist
/jəˈnedəsəst/
Learn to pronounce
noun
an expert in or student of heredity and the variation of inherited characteristics.

Roots wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 12, 2021 5:22 pm

It is still extremly unlikely this was GoF research, all signs still point to naturally occurring.

Intrinsic wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 12, 2021 7:25 pm

Thanks Roots now that we are getting closer
to establishing who is to blame. Mother Nature.

Prawn Connery wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 13, 2021 2:32 am

Human interference hasn't been ruled out, it's just "Improbable".

US COVID origins report researchers pleased with scientific approach

Intelligence investigation is inconclusive on virus’s origins, but finds SARS-CoV-2 wasn’t weaponized and is unlikely to have been engineered

roller24 wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 14, 2021 7:40 am

https://m.facebook.com/wxyzdetroit/post ... 7967261135

Boys?

COVID-19 is making some room on the AM dial as six conspiracy-spreading radio hosts die in six weeks

Intrinsic wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 14, 2021 4:11 pm

I heard otherwise from the US intelligent agency, scientists in the field wholeheartedly agreed with the report.
You know consensus, yanno science, not one jes one testimony, 1 data point.

Roots wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 14, 2021 12:52 pm

If I was a geneticist and roller was my dad, I think the first thing I would do is DNA test on my dad and myself to prove my suspicion that my mom was sleeping around 25 years ago.

Butcher Bob wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 14, 2021 7:15 pm

Intrinsic wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 14, 2021 4:11 pm

I heard otherwise from the US intelligent agency, scientists in the field wholeheartedly agreed with the report.
You know consensus, yanno science, not one jes one testimony, 1 data point.

Ahh, found it.
The particular video I saw started at 59:50 in this one...
...and the meat of what we're discussing starts at 2:49:20.
Long...but definitely worth watching from the one hour mark on.
Make of it what you will...but I see trouble.

"When you say 'man-made' it could have been naturally evolved, which is what was suggested earlier . . . I think more likely – and again, this is speculation – but I think more likely it was evolved by passage either in human cells or by quote humanised mice to have a very virulent pathogen."

Prawn Connery wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:23 pm

Roots wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 14, 2021 12:52 pm

If I was a geneticist and roller was my dad, I think the first thing I would do is DNA test on my dad and myself to prove my suspicion that my mom was sleeping around 25 years ago.

Especially when she's so smart and good-looking. Either that or the apple fell far from the tree

roller24 wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:20 am

Is she a "geneticist"

ge·net·i·cist
/jəˈnedəsəst/
Learn to pronounce
noun
an expert in or student of heredity and the variation of inherited characteristics.

I'd say she's in that neighborhood.
She did a thing.

Sorry to squash your berry.
She is more than qualified to give an objective opinion about c19 structure.

roller24 wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:58 pm

Prawn Connery wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:23 pm

Roots wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 14, 2021 12:52 pm

If I was a geneticist and roller was my dad, I think the first thing I would do is DNA test on my dad and myself to prove my suspicion that my mom was sleeping around 25 years ago.

Especially when she's so smart and good-looking. Either that or the apple fell far from the tree

Don't be jelly, I could probably muster up a couple swimmers to ship over for your obviously better half.

Roots wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 12, 2021 5:22 pm

It is still extremly unlikely this was GoF research, all signs still point to naturally occurring.

Intrinsic wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 12, 2021 7:25 pm

Thanks Roots now that we are getting closer
to establishing who is to blame. Mother Nature.

Prawn Connery wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 13, 2021 2:32 am

Human interference hasn't been ruled out, it's just "Improbable".

Written by Annie Lennon on September 10, 2021 — Fact checked by Ferdinand Lali, Ph.D.
...
The more viruses spread, the more likely they are to mutate and form different variants. Variants that become more transmissible, resistant to current treatment options and vaccines, or cause more severe disease, are called Variants of Concern (VOC).

The World Health Organization (WHO)Trusted Source currently recognizes four SARS-CoV-2 VOCs:

Alpha B.1.1.7, first detected in September 2020 in the United Kingdom

Beta B.1.351, first detected in May 2020 in South Africa

Gamma P.1, first detected in November 2020 in Brazil

Delta B.1.617.2, first detected in October 2020 in India

Viruses need a host to replicate and mutate. The only way to stop new and more dangerous variants of SARS-CoV-2 from emerging is to prevent transmission and infection.

SARS-CoV-2 replicates quicker in unvaccinated people and, therefore, the virus has more opportunity to mutate. As these individuals have not already developed an immune response to the virus, it can survive and multiply for longer periods of time in their bodies.

The more opportunity SARS-CoV-2 has to cause infection in unvaccinated individuals, the higher the chance for new VOCs to emerge.

...

please get your head out of your ass.
..Or stay home.

Butcher Bob wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:33 pm

...
They all just indicated that they unequivocally think this came from the lab...that there is absolutely no evidence of natural progression...and that all evidence points to "gain of function" research, to the level one said was "beyond reasonable doubt". So, it would appear the statements from the three of you would be false.

Intrinsic wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 14, 2021 4:11 pm

27 August 2021
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02366-0

US COVID origins report researchers pleased with scientific approach

Intelligence investigation is inconclusive on virus’s origins, but finds SARS-CoV-2 wasn’t weaponized and is unlikely to have been engineered

Butcher Bob wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:33 pm

Are you even following along Prawn?

Roots wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 12, 2021 5:22 pm

It is still extremly unlikely this was GoF research, all signs still point to naturally occurring.

Intrinsic wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 12, 2021 7:25 pm

Thanks Roots now that we are getting closer
to establishing who is to blame. Mother Nature.

Prawn Connery wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 13, 2021 2:32 am

Human interference hasn't been ruled out, it's just "Improbable".

They all just indicated that they unequivocally think this came from the lab...that there is absolutely no evidence of natural progression...and that all evidence points to "gain of function" research, to the level one said was "beyond reasonable doubt". So, it would appear the statements from the three of you would be false.

Prawn Connery wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:00 pm

Still, if she has a theory, then I think we'd all love to hear it. If only for entertainment

they put the genetic code for the covid protein in the body as the mRNA vaccine:
example: 2020 version:
ATTGCC --> this is sars-cov-2 2020 alpha strain --> it is also exactly the vaccine
ATTCCC ----> a mutated beta version, so the vaccine will still work, but slightly less
ATACCC ----> now we have 2 mutations, so the vaccine works slightly less
AAACCC-----> and here we are at the delta strain and its not working at all, in fact, the neutralization is almost imcomplete there will never be a winning race, the vaccines take a yr to make, so we will always be a yr behind

Butcher Bob wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:33 pm

Are you even following along Prawn?

Roots wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 12, 2021 5:22 pm

It is still extremly unlikely this was GoF research, all signs still point to naturally occurring.

Intrinsic wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 12, 2021 7:25 pm

Thanks Roots now that we are getting closer
to establishing who is to blame. Mother Nature.

Prawn Connery wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 13, 2021 2:32 am

Human interference hasn't been ruled out, it's just "Improbable".

They all just indicated that they unequivocally think this came from the lab...that there is absolutely no evidence of natural progression...and that all evidence points to "gain of function" research, to the level one said was "beyond reasonable doubt". So, it would appear the statements from the three of you would be false.

Prawn Connery wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:06 pm

I don't have designs on your daughter, don't worry. It wouldn't matter how pretty or smart she was – you'd still be the father-in-law!

smokebreaks wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:43 pm

Didn’t any of you fuckers watch the South Park special on COVID ?

Randy fucked a bat and the rest is history

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLyeF ... knxNJSaAwx

roller24 wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:43 am

https://www.nature.com/articles/nm.3985
Here is a link to the original article, where there is a disclaimer added in 2020, of a "nothing to see here" nature.
It's worded alot like this thread. Disregard all this engineering because it originally came from bats

I agree it came from bats, but the bats didn't fly into the cages on their own and do the sequencing.
Natural origin yes, Natural outcome, I don't think so.

Nature was one of the world's most cited scientific journals by the Science Edition of the 2019 Journal Citation Reports (with an ascribed impact factor of 42.778), making it one of the world's most-read and most prestigious academic journals.

Here is a link to the original article, where there is a disclaimer added in 2020, of a "nothing to see here" nature.

30 March 2020 Editors’ note,

March 2020: We are aware that this article is being used as the basis for unverified theories that the novel coronavirus causing COVID-19 was engineered. There is no evidence that this is true; scientists believe that an animal is the most likely source of the coronavirus.

Intrinsic wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:40 am

Roller:

Here is a link to the original article, where there is a disclaimer added in 2020, of a "nothing to see here" nature.

haha here's the disclaimer what it really says : there's nothing Roller wants to see here.

30 March 2020 Editors’ note,

March 2020: We are aware that this article is being used as the basis for unverified theories that the novel coronavirus causing COVID-19 was engineered. There is no evidence that this is true; scientists believe that an animal is the most likely source of the coronavirus.

Intrinsic wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:57 pm

Science says you are wrong,

Most agencies also assess with low confidence that SARS-CoV-2 probably was not genetically engineered; however, two agencies believe there was not sufficient evidence to make an assessment either way..

Yet when Shi Zhengli admits to working with covid for over 20 years, specifically "gain of function" research for the last 8 years, you find a lab leak to be unlikely

Four IC elements and the National Intelligence Council assess with low confidence that the initial SARS-CoV-2 infection was most likely caused by natural exposure to an animal infected with it or a close progenitor virus—a virus that probably would be more than 99 percent similar to SARS-CoV-2. These analysts give weight to China’s officials’ lack of foreknowledge, the numerous vectors for natural exposure, and other factors.
One IC element assesses with moderate confidence that the first human infection with SARS-CoV-2 most likely was the result of a laboratory-associated incident, probably involving experimentation, animal handling, or sampling by the Wuhan Institute of Virology. These analysts give weight to the inherently risky nature of work on coronaviruses.

Analysts at three IC elements remain unable to coalesce around either explanation without additional information, with some analysts favoring natural origin, others a laboratory origin, and some seeing the hypotheses as equally likely.

roller24 wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:21 pm

...
What is it disclaiming? There is no dispute that the source was bats.
But there is strong indications that is was being manipulated/engineered through out the article.
They even mention the "new" virus which would infect humans.
Capture2.PNG
This was done in North Carolina, however the bat lady from wuhan is in the list of credis

The argument is mute at this stage of the game. Solid proof could be revealed today, and nothing would be done.
Your party is completely in control, of the narrative.

I did find this kind of disturbing.
Capture1.PNG
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101 ... 866v1.full
It's new, so they haven't tagged it as disinformation yet.

unverified theories that the novel coronavirus causing COVID-19 was engineered. There is no evidence that this is true; 

Jesús Malverde wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 16, 2021 12:00 am

What is becoming unambiguously clear however is the much larger and existential question of why prayers directed at sky daddy en masse are being overwhelmingly answered with a hearty "Die you fat ignorant anti-vaxxer anti-masker pigs! Die now!" Let's assume for a minute there is a god, why does he rain death and suffering on his flock far out of proportion to those damned souls who don't believe in him? Is he evil? Does he simply want his followers to die unnecessarily? Calling them to heaven, while us non-believers have to console ourselves pointing and laughing at his stupid followers?

roller24 wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 16, 2021 6:59 am

So experiencing joy over the death of other humans, just because they don't think the same way that you do.......

is there a word for that?

roller24 wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 16, 2021 8:36 am

Does that translate to sociopath?

Cases of myocarditis and pericarditis in adolescents and young adults have been reported more often after getting the second dose than after the first dose of one of the two mRNA COVID-19 vaccines, Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna. These reports are rare and the known and potential benefits of COVID-19 vaccination outweigh the known and potential risks, including the possible risk of myocarditis or pericarditis.

Intrinsic wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:28 pm

?? There is the above multi intelligence agencies report passed through peer review by experts in the field. Data is the coin of the realm.

Lrus007 wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 16, 2021 5:50 pm

so if i die will make jesus happy

roller24 wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 16, 2021 6:59 am

So experiencing joy over the death of other humans, just because they don't think the same way that you do.......

is there a word for that?

Prawn Connery wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 16, 2021 9:53 pm

Lrus007 wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 16, 2021 5:50 pm

so if i die will make jesus happy

roller24 wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 16, 2021 6:59 am

So experiencing joy over the death of other humans, just because they don't think the same way that you do.......

is there a word for that?

Schadenjesus?

Goddenfreude?

I'm not praying for you, but I hope you're OK. I promise not to laugh if Jesus doesn't. I guess it depends how ripped we get . . .

Lrus007 wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 16, 2021 10:50 pm

was meaning jesus malverde
well truth is i am fucked
god and the devil both have a restraining order on me.
so my ass is stuck here.

Intrinsic wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 16, 2021 5:16 pm

If you don't trust the government how about the scientist doing the work in the field, peered reviewed the government's work and were satisfied the conclusion is accurate.

So if you don't trust the scientists participating in this field, most who have dedicated their life to the truth, thousands and thousands of them would now all of sudden have to want to lie to the public.

Intrinsic wrote: ↑

Fri Sep 17, 2021 11:27 pm

Speaking of supporting claims, where's that citation supporting your claim of funding for almost all?

UPDATE: As of 2:30 PM CT on July 21, 2021, the CDC's website modified the number of VAERS reports related to COVID-19 vaccination deaths from 12,313 to 6,079, through July 13, 2021. The CDC's webpage's Last Update date remains July 19, 2021.

Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp, a Republican, keeps mentioning the failed campaign to vaccinate Americans against the AIDS virus as an example of the pitfalls of healthcare mandates.

He made the comments most recently on an episode of the right-wing commentator Erick Erickson's podcast ..he believes that education is a more effective tool than mandates.

"That is basically how the AIDS vaccine worked. People wouldn't take it early on because it was mandated, they started educating people and now it is doing a lot of good out there," Kemp told Erickson. "Same scenario, different year that we are dealing with right now."

The governor has been a vocal opponent of recent public health efforts to tamp down on the spread of COVID-19. Kemp has repeatedly said that he will never sign off on mask or vaccine mandates while in office, drawing the criticism of public health experts.

Munchy wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 18, 2021 5:00 pm

^ I agree on that, but what does it have to do with Anti-Vaxxers?

Intrinsic wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 18, 2021 9:23 pm

It is safe and effective. simple arithmetic. number of doses given per number of problems. Compared to number of non-vaccinated per number of problems.

Butcher Bob wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 19, 2021 12:08 am

Trust.

BUT, I am also pointing out a valid reason why folks are hesitant to get the vaccination...lack of trust.
Not arguing for or against, just saying I see justifiable reasoning on both sides.

ben ttech wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 19, 2021 3:54 pm

malone says herd immunity is impossible given the gene therapys 'leakyness'

ben ttech wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 19, 2021 3:54 pm

malone says herd immunity is impossible given the gene therapys 'leakyness'

Intrinsic wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 19, 2021 3:13 pm

12,908 fully vaccinated people caught COVID.

Intrinsic wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:38 am

Prawn are you saying covid is no worse than the influenza and should be treated the same?

Is that true that natural immunization is better to end an epidemic then vaccine immunization? i thougt they both worked on the same principle, cellular memory.


side thought, And it's just not being infected for immunization it's spreading to the more vulnerable. Before kids are immune, a problem a vaccine would solve.

Prawn Connery wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 20, 2021 9:18 pm

Michel Chossudovsky (born 1946) is a Canadian economist, author and conspiracy theorist.[1] He is professor emeritus of economics at the University of Ottawa[2][3] and the president and director of the Centre for Research on Globalization (CRG), which runs the website globalresearch.ca, founded in 2001, which publishes falsehoods and conspiracy theories.[4][5][6] Chossudovsky has promoted conspiracy theories about 9/11.[7][8][11][12]

In 2017, the Centre for Research on Globalization was accused by information warfare specialists at NATO’s Strategic Communications Centre of Excellence (STRATCOM) of playing a key role in the spread of pro-Russian propaganda.[13] A report by the U.S. State Department in August 2020 accused the website of being a proxy for the Russian disinformation campaign.[14]

In 2001, Chossudovsky founded the Centre for Research on Globalization (CRG), becoming its director and the editor of its online resource, Global Research. Located in Montreal, Quebec, Canada, the CRG describes itself as an "independent research and media organization" providing "analysis on issues which are barely covered by the mainstream media".[6][20]

The Centre for Research on Globalization promotes conspiracy theories and falsehoods.[27] It has reported that the September 11 attacks were a false flag attack planned by the CIA,[1] that the United States and its allies fund al-Qaeda and the Islamic State, and that sarin gas was not used in the Khan Shaykhun chemical attack, which globalresearch.ca articles characterized as a false flag operation orchestrated by terrorists opposed to Syrian President Bashar al-Assad.[13][21] Other articles published on the site have asserted that the 7 July 2005 London bombings were perpetrated by the United States, Israel, and United Kingdom.[11] Chossudovsky has himself posted articles on the site which suggested that Osama bin Laden was a CIA asset, and accusing the United States, Israel and Britain of plotting to conquer the world.[11] The Centre has also promoted the Irish slavery myth, prompting a letter by more than 80 scholars debunking the myth.[26]

According to PolitiFact, the Centre "has advanced specious conspiracy theories on topics like 9/11, vaccines and global warming."[22]

ETC

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michel_Chossudovsky

The nanoparticulate components of all vaccines make for very interesting and disturbing reading, as do those components that create magnetic effects in the body. The ‘vaccines’ are certainly ‘NOT vaccines but nanotechnological drugs working as a genetic therapy.’

Robert Oldham Young . . . came to prominence after appearances on The Oprah Winfrey Show featured his treatment of Kim Tinkham for breast cancer. Tinkham and Young both claimed that he had cured her, but she died of her disease shortly afterwards.[2] He was arrested in January 2014 and convicted in 2016 on two out of three charges of theft and practicing medicine without a license.[3][4] He spent several months in jail in 2017.

Turner had a long-running feud with fellow cable magnate Rupert Murdoch for years. This originated in 1983 when a Murdoch-sponsored yacht collided with the yacht skippered by Turner, Condor, during the Sydney to Hobart Yacht Race, causing it to run aground 6.2 miles (10.0 km) from the finish line. At the post-race dinner, a drunken Turner verbally assaulted Murdoch, afterward challenging him to a televised fistfight in Las Vegas.[46]

Murdoch's Fox News, established in 1996, became a rival to Turner's CNN to which Murdoch held disdain for its "liberal slant" in news coverage. Time Warner declined to carry it on their New York City cable network in response, who in the midst of a merger, Turner said would "squash Rupert Murdoch like a bug."[47]

In 2003, Turner challenged Murdoch to another fistfight, and later on accused Murdoch of being a "warmonger" for his support and backing of President George W. Bush's invasion of Iraq.[48][49]

However, revealing in an interview with Variety in 2019, Turner said he and Murdoch have since made amends.

Former Murdoch exec slams Fox News over vaccine misinformation
By Matthew Knott
July 18, 2021 — 12.00am

Washington: One of Rupert Murdoch’s former top executives says Fox News has cost lives by turbo-charging hesitancy about COVID-19 vaccines among conservative Americans.

Joseph Azam, a former senior vice president at News Corp in New York, said he saw a “straight line” between the vaccine-sceptical rhetoric of some of Fox’s most prominent hosts and entrenched resistance to vaccines in large swathes of the United States.

“I think Fox has been almost single-handedly responsible for the politicisation of public health in the US and the creation of vaccine hesitancy in a significant portion of the population,” Azam told The Sydney Morning Herald and The Age.

“It’s been tremendously damaging.”

Fox News host Tucker Carlson, the most-watched cable news presenter in America, has suggested that COVID-19 vaccines may not work and claimed they had killed thousands of Americans.

In April, Carlson told his viewers: “If the vaccine is effective, there is no reason for people who’ve received a vaccine to wear masks or avoid physical contact.

“So maybe it doesn’t work, and they’re simply not telling you that. Well, you’d hate to think that, especially if you’ve gotten two shots. But what’s the other potential explanation? We can’t think of one.”

Rupert Murdoch receives dose of Covid vaccine in UK

Exclusive: 89-year-old News Corp boss gives thanks to key workers, NHS staff and scientists

Rupert Murdoch has become the latest public figure to have the coronavirus vaccine, visiting his local GP’s surgery late on Wednesday to receive his first dose.

A convoy of Range Rovers delivered the 89-year-old billionaire to a dedicated vaccine centre in Henley, Oxfordshire, where normal hours are understood to have been extended at the last minute. An email was sent out saying: “Just a reminder – we have been advised ‘no media coverage’ due to security issues. Please note that photography and video are strictly forbidden.”

A statement issued on behalf of Murdoch, the executive chairman of News Corp, said he “had the vaccine at his local GP’s surgery after he received a call saying he was eligible”.

Murdoch urged people to get the vaccine, saying: “I would like to thank the keyworkers and the NHS staff who have worked so hard throughout the pandemic, and the amazing scientists who have made this vaccine possible. I strongly encourage people around the world to get the vaccine as it becomes available.”

People aged over 80 are in the second tier of priority groups for the vaccine, along with frontline health and social care workers. The first priority were residents in care homes and their carers.

Murdoch, who is Australian-born and a US citizen, has been isolating at his home near Henley for much of the year with his wife, Jerry Hall Murdoch.

Dying from covid if ya catch it:
unvaxx: 1 chance in 488
vaxxed: 1 chance in 86,500

There are 173 million fully vaccinated people. 
12,908 fully vaccinated people caught COVID.  
So, you have a 1 in 13,402 chance of catching COVID if you are fully vaccinated.

There have been 41 million cases COVID in the US. 
Therefore, if you don't get vaccinated, you have a 1 in 8 chance of catching COVID

Intrinsic wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 19, 2021 8:58 pm

good at Sources ? Jimmy Dore is an idiot.

https://amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/619734/

https://healthfeedback.org/claimreview/ ... -inventor/

So much for Jimmy Dore's sources. Idiot

Let's try science rather than sensationalized journalism. Malone didn't even get the train moving.

Robert Malone—a medical doctor and an infectious-disease researcher...

The abridged version is that when Malone was a graduate student in biology in the late 1980s at the Salk Institute for Biological Studies, he injected genetic material—DNA and RNA—into the cells of mice in hopes of creating a new kind of vaccine. He was the first author on a 1989 paper demonstrating how RNA could be delivered into cells using lipids, which are basically tiny globules of fat, and a co-author on a 1990 Science paper showing that if you inject pure RNA or DNA into mouse muscle cells, it can lead to the transcription of new proteins. If the same approach worked for human cells, the latter paper said in its conclusion, this technology “may provide alternative approaches to vaccine development.”

These two studies do indeed represent seminal work in the field of gene transfer, according to Rein Verbeke, a postdoctoral fellow at Ghent University, in Belgium, and the lead author of a 2019 history of mRNA-vaccine development. (Indeed, Malone’s studies are the first two references in Verbeke’s paper, out of 224 in total.) Verbeke told me he believes that Malone and his co-authors “sparked for the first time the hope that mRNA could have potential as a new drug class,” though he also notes that “the achievement of the mRNA vaccines of today is the accomplishment of a lot of collaborative efforts.”

Malone was involved in groundbreaking work related to mRNA vaccines before it was cool or profitable...

I’ve listened to hours of Malone’s interviews and read through the many pages of documents he’s posted. He is a knowledgeable scientist with a knack for lucid explanation.

...vaccine scientists and biotech consultants... The portrait they paint of Malone is of an insightful researcher who can be headstrong. Stan Gromkowski, a cellular immunologist who did work on mRNA vaccines in the early 1990s and views Malone as an underappreciated pioneer...

https://amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/619734/

According to Malone, his role as inventor began in the late 1980s when he, Philip Felgner and Inder Verma introduced mRNA to human, rodent, frog and fruit fly cells via liposomal nanoparticles[2]. Next, Malone and researchers from both the University of Wisconsin, Madison, and Vical Incorporated, injected naked RNA and DNA vectors into the skeletal muscle of mice and observed gene expression[3].

A 2019 review of the technology’s history, begins with the two papers mentioned by Malone[4]. According to the authors of the review, these papers provided the first evidence that mRNA could be delivered to cells in tissue and animals and produce proteins.

Speaking to The Atlantic, Rein Verbeke, the first author of the 2019 review, said that Malone and his co-authors “sparked for the first time the hope that mRNA could have potential as a new drug class”...

https://healthfeedback.org/claimreview/ ... -inventor/

Intrinsic wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 19, 2021 9:21 pm

Bob No one here said trumpian is the cause.

"As written, that statement is incorrect. Considering that, and the fact you have left out applicable variables, means the conclusion you arrive at will be erroneous...strictly from a mathematical perspective."

nope, try again.

roller24 wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 21, 2021 9:20 pm

https://www.geertvandenbossche.org/?wix ... p-km7vc9b0

This virologist gives a very objective opinion, and concise explanation of covid19 evolution.

Prawn
Not sure what FOX news has to do with this, but I lump them right in with the other MSM. I'll watch Tuckers opening monologue once or twice a week, but not a big fan of the network as a whole.
Glenn Beck was the source of Australia's SocSec fund being heavily invested in Evergrande. I tried to find his source or another to confirm, but was unsuccessful. I'll post further if I run across it.
EDIT https://www.reddit.com/r/GME/comments/p ... rivatives/ This will save you the ad hominem reply as redditors have done that for you.

Intrinsic
when you say unvaccinated.. do you mean fully vaxxed, or partially vaxxed? Do your sources make a distinction?
I have heard that Israel keeps moving the goal post, and now only consider 3 shot completion as vaccinated. So this could add some dynamic characteristics to the data.

A federal trust fund is an accounting mechanism used by the federal government to track earmarked receipts (money designated for a specific purpose or program) and corresponding expenditures. The largest and best-known trust funds finance Social Security, portions of Medicare, highways and mass transit, and pensions for government employees.

Federal trust funds bear little resemblance to their private-sector counterparts, and therefore the name can be misleading. A “trust fund” implies a secure source of funding. However, a federal trust fund is simply an accounting mechanism used to track inflows and outflows for specific programs. In private-sector trust funds, receipts are deposited and assets are held and invested by trustees on behalf of the stated beneficiaries. In federal trust funds, the federal government does not set aside the receipts or invest them in private assets. Rather, the receipts are recorded as accounting credits in the trust funds, and then combined with other receipts that the Treasury collects and spends. Further, the federal government owns the accounts and can, by changing the law, unilaterally alter the purposes of the accounts and raise or lower collections and expenditures.

Intrinsic wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 21, 2021 7:00 pm

The varieties of flu have not spread through the entire human population. I rarely get the flu, twice, thus I I don't get most. And I never get vaccinated. also those vaccinated may never get it, you know because of vaccination.

Why do we develop lifelong immunity to some diseases, but not others?

Etc

Intrinsic wrote:A repost of the numbers from The Real World showing it is effective in slowing the spread.

Dying from covid if ya catch it:
unvaxx: 1 chance in 488
vaxxed: 1 chance in 86,500

There are 173 million fully vaccinated people. 
12,908 fully vaccinated people caught COVID.  
So, you have a 1 in 13,402 chance of catching COVID if you are fully vaccinated.

There have been 41 million cases COVID in the US. 
Therefore, if you don't get vaccinated, you have a 1 in 8 chance of catching COVID

ben ttech wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 21, 2021 10:31 pm

im afraid both side are afraid of what agreement would actually mean..l.

Prawn Connery wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 21, 2021 10:12 pm

roller, everyone you refer to – every single person you seem to put blind faith in – appears to be some right-wing conspiracy theorist nutjob. Glenn Beck is an alarmist fuckwit. I bet you can't find even one more source – let a lone a credible source – saying "Australia's social security trust fund is invested in Evergrande"

As for Geert Vanden Bossche . . . please.

Murdoch owns Tucker Carlson. Rupert Murdoch is the father of the modern right-wing media. Just about everything you hold dear to your little conspiracy-loving heart has been fed to you by Rupert Murdoch one way or another. And he is laughing all the way to the bank– because Rupert Murdoch doesn't believe a fraction of the shit his right-wing media spews. He's just happy to milk people like you.

And you don't even know it. That's the REAL conspiracy.

Intrinsic wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 21, 2021 9:15 pm

Source your reference for this statement...

"12,908 fully vaccinated people caught COVID."

...and then explain how the variable of super spreaders has been included in your calculations

I did Source the calculations did you even watch Hillary's video!!! Fool.

The the infection Vector, super spreader or whatever, is in inconsequential. It's just counting confirmed individuals. God you're stupid.

Prawn Connery wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 21, 2021 10:29 pm

The two problems with your numbers are:

a) They lag
b) They are not absolute

As long as CV19 keeps mutating, there will be a risk of fully vaccinated people getting it again.

...you are not going to slow it down until it eventually disappears. ... The genie is already out of the bottle.

Intrinsic wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 21, 2021 9:35 pm

Bob wrote:
I find it to be hilarious that in trying to discredit the source, you actually provide references indicating that he is one of the world's foremost authorities on the subject.

Not surprising you find it funny cuz you're a fool, I just disproved his claim "Robert Malone claims to have invented mRNA technology."
Idiot you do so many red herrings and strawmans you continually forget what the argument is. So not surprising.

He didn't, not even close. did you watch the 50 years in making video? Idiot.

Butcher Bob wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 22, 2021 2:14 am

...Malone just takes it to an earlier point...before the mutation. Super spreaders, people that never knew they contracted the virus due to a lack of symptoms, exists among both vaxxed and unvaxxed. Now, of those super spreaders, the most dangerous group are the vaxxed. The vaxxed super spreader is handing over the blueprints of the vaccine to the virus......and now it will mutate.....now apply that to Prawn's variant point. Same effect as the over use of antibiotics.

Except, you know, influenza. It has never been 

Prawn Connery wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 21, 2021 10:29 pm

Intrinsic wrote:A repost of the numbers from The Real World showing it is effective in slowing the spread.

Dying from covid if ya catch it:
unvaxx: 1 chance in 488
vaxxed: 1 chance in 86,500

There are 173 million fully vaccinated people. 
12,908 fully vaccinated people caught COVID.  
So, you have a 1 in 13,402 chance of catching COVID if you are fully vaccinated.

There have been 41 million cases COVID in the US. 
Therefore, if you don't get vaccinated, you have a 1 in 8 chance of catching COVID

The two problems with your numbers are:

a) They lag
b) They are not absolute

As long as CV19 keeps mutating, there will be a risk of fully vaccinated people getting it again.

I agree that vaccinations can slow the spread. Until a new variant comes along. Clumsy use of words on my behalf. What I really meant by "not slowing" is that you are not going to slow it down until it eventually disappears.

Yes, some countries and jurisdictions (including my own) have managed to keep the virus out. But if we want to re-connect with the world, then we need to re-open at some stage and it is inevitable that CV19 will arrive at some point.

I'm not being alarmist, just realistic about the fact that I believe CV19 is here to stay. The genie is already out of the bottle.

roller24 wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 22, 2021 6:07 am

Knowing that the virus go mutate under pressure from either immunization or other factors, Mass vaccination expedites mutations into variants, and that the end result is a total vaccine resistant variant.
Extra need for multiple vaccinations to address other antibodies needed to attack virus. These boosters reawaken the antibody production of all previous vaccines increasing even more the immune pressure on the virus resulting in the super virus which he claims will do the most damage ie mass deaths.

Intrinsic wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 22, 2021 10:19 am

Yep you're right, bloody well right, absolutely.
Repeating, I said it was a rough calculation, using conservative numbers and a slice in time.
But a back of napkin calculation give us an estimate for the question: Are the vaccine effective in preventing deaths and preventing spread?
are they Safe and effective?

Since about a magnitude difference between vax and unvax, and the hospitals aren't grossly fudging nums, I think we can safely say the final numbers are in the ballpark.

If the ratios of vax verses unvax are in the ballpark, don't you agree it's safe to say covid vaccines overall are so far safe and effective?

I wish to stress the question is not eliminating covid-19 the question is eliminating epidemic, or for Australia can they stay away from being an epidemic.

Prawn Connery wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 22, 2021 3:45 am

It doesn't give the virus a "blueprint" – viruses aren't that smart...

mRNA COVID-19 Vaccination and Development of CMR-confirmed Myopericarditis
Summary and Conclusions This is the largest series in the literature to clearly relate the temporal relationship between mRNA COVID vaccination, symptoms and CMR findings. In most patients, symptom onset began within the first few days after vaccination with corresponding abnormalities in biomarkers and on ECG. Cardiac MRI confirmed acute myocardial and pericardial changes with the presence of edema demonstrated with both tissue mapping and late gadolinium enhancement. Symptoms settled quickly with standard therapy and patients were discharged within a few days. No major adverse cardiac events and no significant arrythmias were noted during inpatient stay. Further follow up will be required to ascertain the longer-term outcomes of this patient group.

Scientists from the University of Ottawa, Canada, have recently estimated the prevalence of myocarditis/pericarditis in individuals recently immunized with mRNA-based coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) vaccines. The analysis reveals a prevalence of 10 myopericarditis cases for every 10,000 vaccine doses. The study is currently available on the medRxiv* preprint server.

Butcher Bob wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 22, 2021 2:15 pm

Prawn Connery wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 22, 2021 3:45 am

It doesn't give the virus a "blueprint" – viruses aren't that smart...

Oh yes it does...same way viruses become resistant to antibiotics. That information is passed on to subsequent generations, which can then adapt evolutionally...just like influenza does with flu vaccines.

Malone's point was that we should take great care to minimize that effect.

ben ttech wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 13, 2021 7:15 pm

male sperm counts are what
less than half what they were 50 years ago?


my bet is these rna therapy's are going to grossly exaggerate the long running decline...

Prawn Connery wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 22, 2021 11:09 am

roller24 wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 22, 2021 6:07 am

Knowing that the virus go mutate under pressure from either immunization or other factors, Mass vaccination expedites mutations into variants, and that the end result is a total vaccine resistant variant.
Extra need for multiple vaccinations to address other antibodies needed to attack virus. These boosters reawaken the antibody production of all previous vaccines increasing even more the immune pressure on the virus resulting in the super virus which he claims will do the most damage ie mass deaths.

How do vaccines expedite virus mutations, roller? I'd love to hear your explanation. If you fully understand what you have just written, you should have no trouble explaining it to the rest of us.

Significant convergent evolution(*) of more infectious circulating Sars-CoV-2 variants is not a neutral, host-independent evolutionary phenomenon that merely results from increased viral replication and transmission but is strongly suggestive of natural selection and adaptation following a dramatic shift in the host(ile) environment the virus is exposed to (1).


Molecular epidemiologists fully acknowledge that the pandemic is currently evolving Sars-CoV-2 variants that “could be a considerably bigger problem for us than any variants that we currently know in that they might have any combinations of increased transmissibility, altered virulence and/or increased capacity to escape population immunity” (1). This is to say that phylogenetics-based natural selection analysis on circulating Sars-CoV-2 lineages strongly suggests that viral variants resistant to spike (S)-based Covid-19 vaccines are currently expanding in prevalence and highly suspicious of causing future epidemic surges globally.


Deployment of current Covid-19 vaccines in mass vaccination campaigns combined with the ongoing widespread circulation of Sars-CoV-2 can only increase immune selective pressure on Sars-CoV-2 spike protein and hence, further drive its adaptive evolution to circumvent vaccine-induced humoral immunity. In this regard, the expectation of an increasing number of vaccinologists matches the current observation made by genomic epidemiologists in that S protein-directed immune escape variants are highly likely to further spread and expedite the occurrence of viral resistance to the currently deployed and future (so-called ‘2nd generation’) Covid-19 vaccines.


To monitor the circulation of hazardous viral variants in the population and to be able to provide unequivocal proof of the immune selection pressure exerted by mass vaccination campaigns and the harmful consequences thereof, there is an urgent need for conducting representative viral sampling on vaccinees, including those who are healthy or only subject to mild disease, and to genetically characterize the variants they shed upon exposure to Sars-CoV-2.


Conducting a mass vaccination experiment at a global scale without understanding the mechanisms underlying viral escape from vaccine-mediated selection pressure is not only a colossal scientific blunder but, first and foremost, completely irresponsible from the perspective of individual and public health ethics.


In the absence of vaccines capable of inducing sterilizing immunity, early multidrug treatment as proposed by Prof. Dr. P. McCullough and others (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33387997/), together with global chemoprophylaxis using highly efficient antiviral drugs, will be key to save lives, reduce the hospitalization burden and dramatically diminish transmission of highly infectious or neutralizing antibody (nAb)-resistant escape variants.

monitoring how members of these known 501Y lineages, and others still undiscovered, are convergently evolving similar strategies to ensure their persistence in the face of mounting infection and vaccine induced host immune recognition ..."

Intrinsic wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 23, 2021 10:31 am

Of all the pandemics the United States has endured, the COVID-19 pandemic is now officially the deadliest, as the number of people who have died due to the infectious disease officially passed the death toll of the 1918 influenza pandemic — 675,000 — on Monday. 

...fwiw.

Prawn Connery wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 21, 2021 10:12 pm

But "Australia put the social security funds in Evergrande" . . . ??? Is this your latest conspiracy theory? Because it bears no resemblance to reality.
roller, everyone you refer to – every single person you seem to put blind faith in – appears to be some right-wing conspiracy theorist nutjob. Glenn Beck is an alarmist fuckwit. I bet you can't find even one more source – let a lone a credible source – saying "Australia's social security trust fund is invested in Evergrande"

Superannuation is one way Australians can save money for their retirement. Your employer should pay 10% of your salary into a super fund, through the Superannuation Guarantee (SG). ... The money deposited into your superannuation account is then invested, and the growth reinvested, to help the balance grow.

Sunsuper turns opportunist on China high-yield property debt The AU$85 billion ($61.6 billion) Australian super fund has some exposure to indebted property developer Evergrande. Meanwhile, China’s co…

Read more at: https://www.asianinvestor.net/article/s ... ebt/472701

Prawn Connery wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 22, 2021 9:50 pm

Butcher Bob wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 22, 2021 2:15 pm

Prawn Connery wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 22, 2021 3:45 am

It doesn't give the virus a "blueprint" – viruses aren't that smart...

Oh yes it does...same way viruses become resistant to antibiotics. That information is passed on to subsequent generations, which can then adapt evolutionally...just like influenza does with flu vaccines.

Malone's point was that we should take great care to minimize that effect.

Vaccines and antibiotics work in completely different ways – which proves to me you don't know what you are talking about.

Butcher Bob wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 23, 2021 1:35 pm

You're going to have to take that up with Dr Malone...because that is pretty much what he is describing.

Intrinsic wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 23, 2021 10:29 am

monitoring how members of these known 501Y lineages, and others still undiscovered, are convergently evolving similar strategies to ensure their persistence in the face of mounting infection and vaccine induced host immune recognition ..."

The statement above makes it appear as if the SARS-cov-2 chooses where to mutate to escape host immunity, which is not the case. The pressure is put on the virus and mutations occur randomly, resulting in escape variants and some resulting in weaker variants.

Prof Jennifer Grier wrote:“Effectively, we are hearing so much more about viral variants in 2021 because, globally, we now have the systems in place to consistently detect and track mutations.

"Virus mutations arise when the virus is replicating in a cell. None of the available vaccines contain live virus, so they cannot directly be the source of a viral variant.

“For the most part, the coronavirus vaccines reduce the risk of getting infected, and with fewer infections, there is less replicating virus so the chance of producing new variants decreases as well.”

roller24 wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 23, 2021 1:25 pm

Superannuation is one way Australians can save money for their retirement. Your employer should pay 10% of your salary into a super fund, through the Superannuation Guarantee (SG). ... The money deposited into your superannuation account is then invested, and the growth reinvested, to help the balance grow.

Sunsuper turns opportunist on China high-yield property debt The AU$85 billion ($61.6 billion) Australian super fund has some exposure to indebted property developer Evergrande. Meanwhile, China’s co…

Read more at: https://www.asianinvestor.net/article/s ... ebt/472701

Is this what we are looking for?
Perhaps Beck mis-spoke using the term "social security" it seems more like an IRA.

Prawn Connery wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 23, 2021 10:04 pm

Butcher Bob wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 23, 2021 1:35 pm

You're going to have to take that up with Dr Malone...because that is pretty much what he is describing.

I think Dr Malone's agenda in appearing on right-wing talk shows to try to push his claim as the father of mRNA vaccines is already apparent. A number of his peers, whilst acknowledging his early work on mRNA and DNA studies, have none-the-less discredited many of his recent claims. However, I'm sure Dr Malone also knows the difference between vaccines and an antibiotics, so I'm almost certain he would not have linked the two.

roller24 wrote: ↑

Fri Sep 24, 2021 2:26 pm

Follow the Science....unless it's not fitting the narrative.
Apparently the 18 FDA advisory board members are right wing wacko tinfoil hat conspiracy theorists.

Definitely one for the chronicles

Butcher Bob wrote: ↑

Fri Sep 24, 2021 5:06 pm

I would love to see your sources denying evolutionary development.

I don't think you even watched the video. So, I will hold your hand and help you out...his explanation basically runs 14:00 - 18:00. And yes, he certainly does compare it to over use of antibiotics.

This is what happens when a right-wing talk-show host (or any talk-show host for that matter) nods his head and has absolutely NO IDEA what his guest is saying! How could Dore let Malone get away with comparing vaccines to antibiotics for instance? Because Dore doesn't have a clue.

Our current knowledge of viral mutation rates indicates that viral genetic diversity is determined by multiple virus- and host-dependent processes, and that viral mutation rates can evolve in response to specific selective pressures.

The finding that HIV-1 has a reduced mutation rate in the genome region encoding the outermost domains of the gp120 envelope protein reveals an uncoupling between mutation rate and genetic diversity, as these domains are the most variable regions of the HIV-1 genome, mainly as a consequence of immune pressure [106]. This indicates that HIV-1 has not evolved the ability to target mutation to regions wherein they are more likely to be needed for adaptation. A possible evolutionary explanation for the gp120 V1–V5 coldspot is that some APOBEC-driven mutations favored by immune pressure during HIV-1 evolutionary history resulted in loss of APOBEC targets, leading to a subsequent reduction in mutation rate.

Viral mutation rates are determined by multiple processes, including polymerase intrinsic fidelity, replication mode, 3′ exonuclease activity, spontaneous nucleic acid damage, access to post-replicative repair, editing by host-encoded deaminases, imbalances in nucleotide pools, template sequence context, and template structure, as summarized in Table 2. Some of these processes underlie large-scale patterns of variation among viruses, such as differences between RNA and DNA viruses, between viruses with small and large genomes, and between single-strand and double-strand viruses, but important mechanistic aspects behind these differences still remain uncharacterized. Furthermore, mutation rates are not static and can evolve in response to selective pressures, as exemplified by fidelity variants selected under mutagenic conditions in a variety of viruses. In addition to polymerase fidelity, other mutation rate-determinants such as access to DNA repair may have also changed in response to selective pressures during viral evolution.

Abstract
Vaccines are useful tools to control influenza A virus infection in poultry, but they need to be periodically reformulated to guarantee appropriate protection from infection and to limit viral replication and circulation, which could favour the emergence of new variants. In this study, a deep sequencing approach was used to characterize and follow the evolution of the hemagglutinin of the H5N1 highly pathogenic avian influenza viral population in infected animals vaccinated with two vaccines conferring different protection levels. Results from this preliminary investigation suggested that the evolution of the viral population, as well as the abundance and heterogeneity of minority variants could be influenced by the immune pressure conferred by vaccination.

is that the vaccine DOES NOT CAUSE the mutation. The mutation is random!

roller24 wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 26, 2021 3:41 pm

This is what happens when a right-wing talk-show host (or any talk-show host for that matter) nods his head and has absolutely NO IDEA what his guest is saying! How could Dore let Malone get away with comparing vaccines to antibiotics for instance? Because Dore doesn't have a clue.

You just implied that Dore is right wing.

Prawn Connery wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 23, 2021 10:23 pm

This is correct, mutations are mostly random. However, some environmental influences can directly cause mutations, such as exposure to intense radiation.

Prawn Connery wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 26, 2021 12:39 pm

"It's the same basic logic." Is what Malone said vis-a-vis antibiotic vs vaccines.

roller24 wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:36 pm

...selective pressures.

Prawn Connery wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 27, 2021 2:39 am

We are now back to Square One again.

Intrinsic wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 27, 2021 8:02 pm

My two cents, structural mutations are random. Else you would predispose a creator with intent.

Then outside pressures determine if the mutation is viable, lives or dies. You know Darwinism from random mutations. Ain't rocket science. Ain't new.

Butcher Bob wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 27, 2021 2:39 pm

Prawn Connery wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 26, 2021 12:39 pm

"It's the same basic logic." Is what Malone said vis-a-vis antibiotic vs vaccines.

You see him say it...but you miss the point.

Butcher Bob wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 27, 2021 2:39 pm

roller24 wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:36 pm

...selective pressures.

Roller gets it.

Butcher Bob wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 27, 2021 2:39 pm

You would think someone familiar with breeding practices (assuming you are) would understand...
...but apparently not...

Butcher Bob wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 27, 2021 2:39 pm

Prawn Connery wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 27, 2021 2:39 am

We are now back to Square One again.

...because if we were back to square one, the vaccine would still be as effective as it originally was.

Butcher Bob wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 22, 2021 2:15 pm

Prawn Connery wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 22, 2021 3:45 am

It doesn't give the virus a "blueprint" – viruses aren't that smart...

Oh yes it does...same way viruses become resistant to antibiotics. That information is passed on to subsequent generations, which can then adapt evolutionally...just like influenza does with flu vaccines.

roller24 wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:36 pm

Virus mutations should be called evolutions, and DO OCCUR NATURALLY. Virus replication occurs rapidly, there for evolution occurs rapidly.
Rate of evolution can be increased by outside influences known as selective pressures.
Immune pressure is one type of selective pressure and can be introduced both naturally by the body's immune system or by artificial instance as in the case with vaccines.
The vaccine itself doesn't cause the mutation, but does contribute to the immune pressure which does indeed effect the rate of evolution.

Roots wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 28, 2021 2:35 am

Key word “Faster”.

roller24 wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 28, 2021 6:28 am

Also, something to debate here is the brutal campaigns to vehemently poopoo treatments which have shown to be successful for cov19.
I can only think of one reason. An effective treatment would negate the EUA, which is issued based on the absence of a treatment.
Why do they insist on calling Ivermectin "Horse Dewormer" instead of it's name, as with any other drug, even though it's been used to treat humans for decades? Many drugs are used in both human and animal treatments.
Did you know that early treatment of c19 with Ivermectin can bring both relief and natural immunity to the patient?
Why is that information seem to be suppressed?

Do you ask yourself these questions?

You know...... they only seem to censor the truth. I have not heard of one flat earth or niburu video going against "community standards".

can the experts ever be wrong when trying to rush a cure? Remember AZT?

Fraudulent ivermectin studies open up new battleground between science and misinformation

Studies suggesting ivermectin is an effective Covid treatment relied on evidence ‘that has substantially evaporated under close scrutiny’, fresh research shows

roller24 wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 28, 2021 5:05 pm

So if everyone gets vaccinated.... what will be the control group?

Intrinsic wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 28, 2021 5:55 pm

roller24 wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 28, 2021 5:05 pm

So if everyone gets vaccinated.... what will be the control group?

Kind of false premise, we need to reach herd immunity. Vaccination eliminates the epidemic here; not outbreaks from the pandemic.
And in any animal populations there's always a natural immunity, yanno Darwinism. Built-in control group Plus the wiggle room we have outside herd immunity.

But... if needing a control group is keeping you from getting a vaccine, it's okay, there will still be a control group. Go ahead.

PHYSICIANS DECLARATION
GLOBAL COVID SUMMIT – ROME, ITALY
International Alliance of Physicians and Medical Scientists
September, 2021
(view in Italian) (view in Slovak) (view in Dutch) (view in Spanish)

[UPDATE: as of 7pm ET on 9/27 over 5,200 doctors & scientists have signed the Rome Declaration. Please join us by reading and signing below.]

We the physicians of the world, united and loyal to the Hippocratic Oath, recognizing the profession of medicine as we know it is at a crossroad, are compelled to declare the following;

WHEREAS, it is our utmost responsibility and duty to uphold and restore the dignity, integrity, art and science of medicine;

WHEREAS, there is an unprecedented assault on our ability to care for our patients;

WHEREAS, public policy makers have chosen to force a “one size fits all” treatment strategy, resulting in needless illness and death, rather than upholding fundamental concepts of the individualized, personalized approach to patient care which is proven to be safe and more effective;

WHEREAS, physicians and other health care providers working on the front lines, utilizing their knowledge of epidemiology, pathophysiology and pharmacology, are often first to identify new, potentially life saving treatments;

WHEREAS, physicians are increasingly being discouraged from engaging in open professional discourse and the exchange of ideas about new and emerging diseases, not only endangering the essence of the medical profession, but more importantly, more tragically, the lives of our patients;

WHEREAS, thousands of physicians are being prevented from providing treatment to their patients, as a result of barriers put up by pharmacies, hospitals, and public health agencies, rendering the vast majority of healthcare providers helpless to protect their patients in the face of disease. Physicians are now advising their patients to simply go home (allowing the virus to replicate) and return when their disease worsens, resulting in hundreds of thousands of unnecessary patient deaths, due to failure-to-treat;

WHEREAS, this is not medicine. This is not care. These policies may actually constitute crimes against humanity.

NOW THEREFORE, IT IS:

RESOLVED, that the physician-patient relationship must be restored. The very heart of medicine is this relationship, which allows physicians to best understand their patients and their illnesses, to formulate treatments that give the best chance for success, while the patient is an active participant in their care.

RESOLVED, that the political intrusion into the practice of medicine and the physician/patient relationship must end. Physicians, and all health care providers, must be free to practice the art and science of medicine without fear of retribution, censorship, slander, or disciplinary action, including possible loss of licensure and hospital privileges, loss of insurance contracts and interference from government entities and organizations – which further prevent us from caring for patients in need. More than ever, the right and ability to exchange objective scientific findings, which further our understanding of disease, must be protected.

RESOLVED, that physicians must defend their right to prescribe treatment, observing the tenet FIRST, DO NO HARM. Physicians shall not be restricted from prescribing safe and effective treatments. These restrictions continue to cause unnecessary sickness and death. The rights of patients, after being fully informed about the risks and benefits of each option, must be restored to receive those treatments.

RESOLVED, that we invite physicians of the world and all health care providers to join us in this noble cause as we endeavor to restore trust, integrity and professionalism to the practice of medicine.

RESOLVED, that we invite the scientists of the world, who are skilled in biomedical research and uphold the highest ethical and moral standards, to insist on their ability to conduct and publish objective, empirical research without fear of reprisal upon their careers, reputations and livelihoods.

RESOLVED, that we invite patients, who believe in the importance of the physician-patient relationship and the ability to be active participants in their care, to demand access to science-based medical care.

Why don't you trust the government Roller?

Intrinsic wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 28, 2021 5:45 pm

Or salad dressings or fast food, air filtration systems...
Covid-Ivermectin-BillGates.jpg

roller24 wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 28, 2021 8:56 pm

Why don't you trust the government Roller?

9times.PNG
Great minds think alike.

3times.PNG
dopplegangers galore.


Dead man taking a cigarette break.

Prawn Connery wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 28, 2021 10:16 pm

Intrinsic wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 28, 2021 5:45 pm

Or salad dressings or fast food, air filtration systems...
Covid-Ivermectin-BillGates.jpg

Haha genius!

IMO, he missed a trick by not putting all that nanotechnology in our drinking water, but what would I know? Maybe he already did.

roller24 wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:09 pm

you'd just piss it out.

roller24 wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:12 am

well, how about one from the National Institutes of Health.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8088823/

Can't wait for you to debunk the dead guy lighting up a Marlboro.

roller24 wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:12 am

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8088823/

Prawn Connery wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 29, 2021 1:41 am

roller24 wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:12 am

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8088823/

Discredited.

https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opin ... tion-68505

Malone and the other guest editors of the special issue objected to what they viewed as publisher interference on the ivermectin and famotidine-celecoxib papers, Malone tells The Scientist. Both papers had received predominantly favorable peer reviews, the editors’ statement emphasizes, and the famotidine-celecoxib paper was “clearly and explicitly described as a case series, and this clinical evaluation (case series) is explicitly allowed for publication both as a general category for this journal and in this special topic volume.”

roller24 wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 29, 2021 7:53 am

Merck the manufacturer of Ivermectin is also listed as a partner of the WEF. This might explain their motivation for dismissing Ivermectin as well.

roller24 wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 29, 2021 8:40 am

I'll eat shit on the other post content.
my bad.
my dog ate my homework.

Prawn Connery wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 29, 2021 1:32 pm

roller24 wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 29, 2021 8:40 am

I'll eat shit on the other post content.
my bad.
my dog ate my homework.

I know, deep down, you're a pretty swell guy, roller. You're starting to make me feel bad for continually taking the piss out of you. But honestly, can you not make it so easy for me? Please?

Prawn Connery wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 29, 2021 1:28 pm

So what you're saying is, if Ivermectin was effective, Merck wouldn't be trying to produce another drug that it believes will actually work.

It's kind of the "anti-conspiracy theory", isn't it? Other companies lie about the effectiveness of their products to encourage people to buy and consume more so that they can make more money. But not Merck it lies about the ineffectiveness of its products to warn people not to use it so that it can miss out on billions of dollars.

Makes perfect sense to me.

KENILWORTH, N.J., Feb. 4, 2021 – Merck (NYSE: MRK), known as MSD outside the United States and Canada, today affirmed its position regarding use of ivermectin during the COVID-19 pandemic. Company scientists continue to carefully examine the findings of all available and emerging studies of ivermectin for the treatment of COVID-19 for evidence of efficacy and safety.It is important to note that, to-date, our analysis has identified:

No scientific basis for a potential therapeutic effect against COVID-19 from pre-clinical studies;
No meaningful evidence for clinical activity or clinical efficacy in patients with COVID-19 disease, and;
A concerning lack of safety data in the majority of studies.
We do not believe that the data available support the safety and efficacy of ivermectin beyond the doses and populations indicated in the regulatory agency-approved prescribing information.

An effective, convenient COVID-19 treatment could reach annual sales of over $10 billion, according to a recent Jefferies & Co estimate. Merck has a contract with the U.S. government that implies a price of $700 for a course of treatment with its antiviral molnupiravir.

Intrinsic wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 27, 2021 8:42 pm

CLAIM
COVID-19 vaccines will make SARS-CoV-2 more dangerous due to a mechanism called antibody-dependent enhancement (ADE)

VERDICT: Misleading

DETAILS
Inadequate support: COVID-19 vaccines haven’t shown signs of antibody-dependent enhancement (ADE) in animal studies or vaccinated people. On the contrary, evidence indicates that vaccination reduces the risk of infection and the severity of the disease.
Misrepresents source: Fully vaccinated people who become infected tend to carry a lower viral load compared to unvaccinated people. The video misinterpreted an article by NBC News reporting on new data that is specifically about the Delta variant only. When infected with this variant, vaccinated people might have viral levels similar to unvaccinated people,
but not higher as the video claimed


FULL CLAIM: “The [COVID-19] vaccine causes the virus to become more infectious than would happen in the absence of vaccination”; “the [viral] titers in the vaccinated are actually higher than in the unvaccinated”

Prawn Connery wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 28, 2021 1:59 am

Selective pressure – as Intrinsic pointed out – only determines which mutations succeed or die.

It has nothing to do with selective pressure. ...it is not the cause of the genetic variation.

(Caveat: some environmental conditions are responsible for turning genes on and off, but those genes have to be present in the first place.)

roller24 wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:36 pm

Rate of evolution can be increased by outside influences known as selective pressures.
Immune pressure is one type of selective pressure and can be introduced both naturally by the body's immune system or by artificial instance as in the case with vaccines.
The vaccine itself doesn't cause the mutation, but does contribute to the immune pressure which does indeed effect the rate of evolution.

Oldjoints wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 28, 2021 7:07 am

...the vaccine teaches our body how to attack just the part of the disease that attaches to our cells...

Prawn Connery wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 28, 2021 1:59 am

Butcher Bob wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 27, 2021 2:39 pm

Prawn Connery wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 27, 2021 2:39 am

We are now back to Square One again.

...because if we were back to square one, the vaccine would still be as effective as it originally was.

It still is. With the original CV19 Alpha strain. Are you saying it's not? You are talking about a different strain – Delta – so why are you so determined to compare apples with oranges?

Prawn Connery wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 28, 2021 7:39 am

Fraudulent ivermectin studies open up new battleground between science and misinformation

Studies suggesting ivermectin is an effective Covid treatment relied on evidence ‘that has substantially evaporated under close scrutiny’, fresh research shows

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-n ... nformation

Prawn Connery wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 29, 2021 11:31 am

roller24 wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 29, 2021 7:53 am

Merck the manufacturer of Ivermectin is also listed as a partner of the WEF. This might explain their motivation for dismissing Ivermectin as well.

So the manufacturer of Ivermectin, which stands to make literally billions of dollars if its drug is approved around the world to treat Covid, has stated that there is "No scientific basis for a potential therapeutic effect against COVID-19 from pre-clinical studies; No meaningful evidence for clinical activity or clinical efficacy in patients with COVID-19 disease, and; A concerning lack of safety data in the majority of studies."

https://www.merck.com/news/merck-statem ... -pandemic/

And the reason they have forfeited all those billions of dollars is – wait for it – another conspiracy theory!!!

Prawn Connery wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 29, 2021 1:36 am

roller24 wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:12 am

well, how about one from the National Institutes of Health.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8088823/

Can't wait for you to debunk the dead guy lighting up a Marlboro.

What's to debunk? No source. No context. No back story. Were they filming an ad? Were they filming a TV series? Were they filming a pantomime? Were they filming a conspiracy theory video so that other conspiracy theorists like you could post it on YouTube and shout "CONSPIRACY THEORY!"

Oh, no. It was none of those! It was a Russian music video!!!!

https://factcheck.afp.com/video-does-no ... ing-filmed

Are you really that dumb roller? What the fuck is wrong with you?

roller24 wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 29, 2021 4:19 pm

Ivermectin is pretty cheap, and I've seen prices as low as 5 bucks a pill. I don't know how much the Covid Pill will cost, but my GUESS is it will be considerably more. This alone COULD justify steering away from Ivmctn.
In a business that I fully comprehend, If I had 2 items on my dinner menu, one for 5$ and one for 25$, I wouldn't encourage diners to settle for the 5$ item, even though both would quell their hunger.

Roots wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 29, 2021 6:26 pm

Prawn can call people dumb all he wants, he's the one walking around with a ball stamp on his forehead.

Butcher Bob wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 29, 2021 4:46 pm

It is my understanding that the average price per dose is only $6...so there is plenty of incentive to come up with a much more profitable "new" drug...from a business perspective.

Butcher Bob wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 29, 2021 4:46 pm

I'm just applying logic...
If the vaccine is stopping some variants from attaching...then it is leaving those sites open to variants the vaccine is ineffective against.
There is the selective pressure. By working to eliminate strains that the vaccine is effective against, unfortunately you are promoting the propagation of the strains it is ineffective against, by eliminating competition for available sites.
i.e. Unvaxxed folks will tend to spread all variants, whereas vaxxed folks will tend to spread variants the vaccine is ineffective against.

Butcher Bob wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 29, 2021 4:46 pm

If they are different, then why is the booster for the alpha? You would think further immunization would factor in new varients, like they do with the flu. Because despite high vaccination rates, Iceland (71+%) and Singapore (77+%) would like to know why they've seen cases spike as high as the initial wave.

Prawn Connery wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 29, 2021 8:34 pm

Except your restaurant has been open for two years now (CV19) and you have let all your customers starve to death (literally) rather than serve them the only $5 meal you have (Ivermectin) – just so you can waste time in the kitchen trying to concoct a $25 recipe which may or may not hit the menu in the next 12 months.

Way to run a business!

roller24 wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 29, 2021 11:21 pm

Prawn Connery wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 29, 2021 8:34 pm

Except your restaurant has been open for two years now (CV19) and you have let all your customers starve to death (literally) rather than serve them the only $5 meal you have (Ivermectin) – just so you can waste time in the kitchen trying to concoct a $25 recipe which may or may not hit the menu in the next 12 months.

Way to run a business!

Actually, the 25$ restaurant down the street told everyone my 5$ meal tasted like old apples, and wouldn't quell their appetite. On top of that they claimed it was tainted and was dangerous to eat. I was shut down by the health department and they say I can't sell my 5$ meal until they get around to conducting a full inspection and re-issue my license. The restaurant is perfectly functional. All the equipment is here, I can cook and the place is clean, but because the authority hasn't given me a piece of paper, I just have to stand and watch hungry people walk by on their way to the restaurant down the street for their meal.

Mister Grafik wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 29, 2021 11:09 pm

Pretty sure it woulda been better to just let nature take it's course

As of late... Since the Vaccines became required, most of the people I know who hadn't been sick before are now sick or have recently fallen ill which is interesting to me.

I think they fucked up the vax.. causing a variant to form, which multiplies with the original virus and now there are many other variants to follow. But who is going to admit that fuck up?

Rather they just make a bunch of waves elsewhere.. Ban a couple innocent folks and keep pressing the original point (just like a good politician).

The world is fuct

Munchy wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:25 am

Prawn Connery wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 29, 2021 11:38 pm

No roller, YOU TOLD YOUR OWN CUSTOMERS that your $5 meal tasted like shit and YOU AGREED WITH THE INSPECTORS that it was also dangerous to eat.

Remember, it is the manufacturer itself (Merck) that is claiming Ivermectin is not effective. That is not the same as rival drug-makers casting aspersions, or regulators trying to stamp out Ivermectin (your theoretical $5 meal).

When the chef says "Don't eat my food", you don't eat his food.

No scientific basis for a potential therapeutic effect against COVID-19 from pre-clinical studies;
No meaningful evidence for clinical activity or clinical efficacy in patients with COVID-19 disease, and;
A concerning lack of safety data in the majority of studies.

Conclusion and Relevance: Among adults with mild COVID-19, a 5-day course of ivermectin, compared with placebo, did not significantly improve the time to resolution of symptoms. The findings do not support the use of ivermectin for treatment of mild COVID-19, although larger trials may be needed to understand the effects of ivermectin on other clinically relevant outcomes.

Prawn Connery wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 29, 2021 8:39 pm

See my response to roller's Conspiracy Theory Restaurant analogy. You guys would make terrible businessmen.

Prawn Connery wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 29, 2021 9:26 pm

Butcher Bob wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 29, 2021 4:46 pm

I'm just applying logic...
If the vaccine is stopping some variants from attaching...then it is leaving those sites open to variants the vaccine is ineffective against.
There is the selective pressure. By working to eliminate strains that the vaccine is effective against, unfortunately you are promoting the propagation of the strains it is ineffective against, by eliminating competition for available sites.
i.e. Unvaxxed folks will tend to spread all variants, whereas vaxxed folks will tend to spread variants the vaccine is ineffective against.

Mr Logic, how does your "selective pressure" cause the virus to mutate faster? It doesn't.

Prawn Connery wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 29, 2021 9:26 pm

Butcher Bob wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 29, 2021 4:46 pm

If they are different, then why is the booster for the alpha? You would think further immunization would factor in new varients, like they do with the flu. Because despite high vaccination rates, Iceland (71+%) and Singapore (77+%) would like to know why they've seen cases spike as high as the initial wave.

This is where it helps to know the difference between how antibiotics and vaccines work.

Blah blah blah...

Prawn Connery wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 29, 2021 9:26 pm

The logic behind continuing to administer a vaccine for a strain that has evolved (Alpha vs Delta) is because there are still other variants out there that the vaccine is effective in helping to fight, so if you become infected with both Alpha and Delta at the same time, at least your body can recognise and eliminate Alpha before it takes hold – leaving it to fight Delta.

The vaccine may still help the immune system recognise the new variant – especially if it's spike proteins are similar – as it has trained the immune system to recognise and fight a spike protein it normally wouldn't know how to deal with. It also trains the immune system to respond faster to similar threats (instead of lagging and letting the viral load build to the point where it overwhelms the immune system before the fight begins).

Prawn Connery wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 29, 2021 11:51 pm

The vaccine...may facilitate the propagation of more deadly variants, but they would have evolved faster if the original strain was left to mutate seven-billion fold by infecting the entire human race.

Prawn Connery wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 30, 2021 4:13 am

Munchy wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:25 am

^ This. ...all you have to do is follow the money.

EXCLUSIVE YouTube takes down Xinjiang videos, forcing rights group to seek alternative
June 25 (Reuters) - A human rights group that attracted millions of views on YouTube to testimonies from people who say their families have disappeared in China's Xinjiang region is moving its videos to little-known service Odysee after some were taken down by the Google-owned (GOOGL.O) streaming giant, two sources told Reuters.

The group, credited by international organizations like Human Rights Watch for drawing attention to human rights violations in Xinjiang, has come under fire from Kazakh authorities since its founding in 2017.

Serikzhan Bilash, a Xinjiang-born Kazakh activist who co-founded the channel and has been arrested multiple times for his activism, said government advisors told him five years ago to stop using the word "genocide" to describe the situation in Xinjiang - an order he assumed came from pressure from China's government on Kazakhstan.

"They're just facts," Bilash said to Reuters in a phone interview, referring to the content of Atajurt's videos. "The people giving the testimonies are talking about their loved ones."

On June 15, the channel was blocked for violating YouTube's guidelines, according to a screenshot seen by Reuters, after twelve of its videos had been reported for breaching its 'cyberbullying and harassment' policy.

Butcher Bob wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:08 pm

Words

roller24 wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 30, 2021 10:08 pm

some will defend this.

First identified in India in December 2020, Delta swept rapidly through that country and Great Britain before reaching the U.S., where it quickly surged. It is now the predominant SARS CoV-2 variant, accounting for more than 99% of COVID-19 cases and leading to an overwhelming increase in hospitalizations in some states.

Delta is believed to be more than twice as contagious as previous variants, and studies have shown that it may be more likely than the original virus to put infected people in the hospital. People who are not vaccinated are most at risk, and the highest spread of cases and severe outcomes is happening in places with low vaccination rates.

“In a completely unmitigated environment—where no one is vaccinated or wearing masks—it’s estimated that the average person infected with the original coronavirus strain will infect 2.5 other people,” Dr. Wilson says. “In the same environment, Delta would spread from one person to maybe 3.5 or 4 other people.”

“Because of the math, it grows exponentially and more quickly,” he says. “So, what seems like a fairly modest rate of infectivity can cause a virus to dominate very quickly.”

Prawn Connery wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 30, 2021 10:15 pm

Butcher Bob wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:08 pm

Words

I can't even . . .

It is clear you are arguing for the sake of arguing.

COVID-19 pill shows clinical success, could be heading for emergency use request

A New Jersey-based pharmaceutical company says it has developed a pill that reduces the risk of hospitalization or death from COVID-19 by 50%.

Merck announced Friday, Oct. 1, that its Phase 3 clinical trials for the pill, known as molnupiravir, have shown positive early results. The company plans to submit an application the to the U.S. Food and Drug Administration “as soon as possible.”

...

Molnupiravir’s effectiveness was seen across all key subgroups, Merck said, and the drug demonstrated consistent efficacy across the gamma, delta and mu variants.

...

In addition to submitting its data to the FDA, the company plans to submit marketing applications to other regulatory bodies around the world.

...

Merck agreed to supply the U.S. government with 1.7 million courses upon approval by the FDA.

If granted any level of authorization from the FDA, Molnupiravir could be the first oral antiviral medicine available for COVID-19.

https://www.mlive.com/public-interest/2 ... quest.html

Micah Lee, September 28 2021

America’s Frontline Doctors, a right-wing group founded last year to promote pro-Trump doctors during the coronavirus pandemic, is working in tandem with a small network of health care companies to sow distrust in the Covid-19 vaccine, dupe tens of thousands of people into seeking ineffective treatments for the disease, and then sell consultations and millions of dollars’ worth of those medications. The data indicate patients spent at least $15 million — and potentially much more — on consultations and medications combined.

The Intercept has obtained hundreds of thousands of records from two companies, CadenceHealth.us and Ravkoo, revealing just how the lucrative operation works. America’s Frontline Doctors, or AFLDS, has been spreading highly politicized misinformation about Covid-19 since the summer of 2020 and refers its many followers to its telemedicine partner SpeakWithAnMD.com..

..Cadence Health’s Roque Espinal-Valdez said he shut the platform down, not wanting any part in profiting off of Covid-19 “quackery.”
:

Intrinsic wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 01, 2021 11:54 pm

I put one small drop of bleach in my well whenever it's worked on it. rarely. And never never, a big no no let bleach in the septic.

lrus, I know you take potions now, but would you take any of those preventive pills 'n potions now being considered for emergency approval by the FDA before your next infection?
Don't die man.

Intrinsic wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 01, 2021 6:14 pm

It is good news. But...
Not a valid excuse imo, take the jab.

Intrinsic wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 01, 2021 6:14 pm

The moderna vaccine...is...free.

Intrinsic wrote: ↑

Sat Oct 02, 2021 12:34 am

Doesn't matter if her medical reasons for being concerned is wrong, spreading misinformation during a Health crisis
Or at least there is no evidence whatsoever among the medical community of this damage permanent or otherwise. Where's the evidence a permanent damage? So far just an single expert opinion. The consensus is her medical reason is wrong.

So what about the Thousand other expert doctors who are also concerned for their patients, who see no evidence Of her conjecture? Discount them?
This is precisely why we have consensus science, repeatable experiments and peer review. Find out if her claim is true or not. When we ignore science what happenes kidz? Misinformation that's what!

RESULTS
In the vaccination analysis, the vaccinated and control groups each included a mean of 884,828 persons. Vaccination was most strongly associated with an elevated risk of myocarditis (risk ratio, 3.24; 95% confidence interval [CI], 1.55 to 12.44; risk difference, 2.7 events per 100,000 persons;

The vaccine was associated with an excess risk of myocarditis (1 to 5 events per 100,000 persons). The risk of this potentially serious adverse event and of many other serious adverse events was substantially increased after SARS-CoV-2 infection.

20. Research shows that most individuals with myocarditis do not have any symptoms. Complications of myocarditis include dilated cardiomyopathy, arrhythmias, sudden cardiac death and carries a mortality rate of 20% at one year and 50% at 5 years. According to the National Center for Biotechnology Information, U.S. National Library of Medicine, “despite optimal medical management, overall mortality has not changed in the last 30 years”.

Prawn Connery wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 01, 2021 10:47 pm

To all the doctors in the house: can someone please explain to me why taking a pill is so much safer than getting a jab?

I think this negates your claim of disinformation. But I didn't vote for Biden, so I'm obviously grifting to make millions of dollars 

She is working with the infamous America’s Frontline Doctors.

Intrinsic wrote: ↑

Sat Oct 02, 2021 9:43 am

Then there's the antifreeze nonsense she spread, misinformation you conveniently ignore.

Then the misinformation in her Affidavit:
1. Long claims the Pfizer and Comirnaty are separate vaccines. But they're the same vaccine. just a name change after FDA approval. She claims you are being tricked into taking the Pfizer when you are told it's Comirnaty. WTF! Misinformation.

2. Long's statement that the vaccines will not provide better protection than a covid19 recovered person. This is false. The Science, that is real data, has been documented in peer-reviewed, an mRNA vaccinated person has a higher immunity then person recoverd from covid. Vaccines provide better immunity then natural immunity. Documented in peer-reviewed.

The Bottom Line
Some people believe that naturally acquired immunity—immunity from having the disease itself—is better than the immunity provided by vaccines. However, natural infections can cause severe complications and be deadly. This is true even for diseases that many people consider mild, like chickenpox. It is impossible to predict who will get serious infections that may lead to hospitalization.

Vaccines, like any medication, can cause side effects. The most common side effects are mild. However, many vaccine-preventable disease symptoms can be serious, or even deadly. Although many of these diseases are rare in this country, they do circulate around the world and can be brought into the U.S., putting unvaccinated children at risk. Even with advances in health care, the diseases that vaccines prevent can still be very serious – and vaccination is the best way to prevent them.

Intrinsic wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 01, 2021 10:30 pm

Lt Col Theresa Long has the belief that “all persons who have received a Covid 19 Vaccine are damaged in their cardiovascular system in an irreparable and irrevocable manner.”
What? Other than her single expertise opinion where is the medical science for such irreparable damage. Surely there must be cases?

But if this is your single expert to go with, OK
I would have chosen someone who didn't publicly say there was antifreeze in the mRNA vaccines.

"I cannot discern what form of alchemy Pfizer and the FDA have discovered that would make antifreeze into a healthful cure to the human body," Long wrote.
The vaccines do not contain antifreeze. Long, like many vaccine skeptics and users on social media, claim the vaccines contain polyethylene glycol and that it is an active ingredient in antifreeze. But, Ethylene glycol is actually the active ingredient in antifreeze.

She is working with the infamous America’s Frontline Doctors.

First this MAGA medical group talked up hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin. Now it’s found a new target: the Pentagon. And an Army lieutenant colonel has joined its effort.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-bonke ... ne-mandate

First this MAGA medical group talked up hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin. Now it’s found a new target: the Pentagon. And an Army lieutenant colonel has joined its effort.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-bonke ... ne-mandate

"I cannot discern what form of alchemy Pfizer and the FDA have discovered that would make antifreeze into a healthful cure to the human body," Long wrote.
The vaccines do not contain antifreeze. Long, like many vaccine skeptics and users on social media, claim the vaccines contain polyethylene glycol and that it is an active ingredient in antifreeze. But, Ethylene glycol is actually the active ingredient in antifreeze.

hydroisbetty wrote: ↑

Sat Oct 02, 2021 8:15 pm

....

Intrinsic wrote: ↑

Sat Oct 02, 2021 9:43 am

CLAIM: Lt Col Theresa Long has the belief that “all persons who have received a Covid 19 Vaccine are damaged in their cardiovascular system in an irreparable and irrevocable manner.”

Nope, no evidence of permanent damage, no one has died, just her expert conjecture.

Intrinsic wrote: ↑

Sat Oct 02, 2021 9:43 am

2. Long's statement that the vaccines will not provide better protection than a covid19 recovered person. This is false. The Science, that is real data, has been documented in peer-reviewed, an mRNA vaccinated person has a higher immunity then person recoverd from covid. Vaccines provide better immunity then natural immunity. Documented in peer-reviewed.

roller24 wrote: ↑

Sat Oct 02, 2021 2:39 pm

Does This vaccine provide immunity better than natural immunity? I'm not so sure. CDC even changed the word immunity to protection.
I also noticed that this claim wasn't really made prior to covid. I searched the topic limiting dates to before 2019, Here are results from cdc and one other source. I find this kind of interesting, but you know I have trust issues.
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/immunity-types.htm
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/hcp/conver ... -work.html

Intrinsic wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 03, 2021 5:06 pm

Since Prawn is going for his aviator medical We'll find out soon.

Soldiers have limited options to refuse the COVID-19 vaccine, and may have a hard time claiming an exemption if they have never protested a dozen-plus other vaccines the Defense Department mandates for all troops, according to new Army guidelines.

Punishments for troops, especially senior leaders, who steadfastly refuse without an exemption could include discharge.

Intrinsic wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 03, 2021 5:06 pm

Given that Intrinsic is always wrong;

roller24 wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 05, 2021 2:19 pm

I knew you were bipolar

Munchy wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 05, 2021 3:25 pm

Prawn Connery wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 05, 2021 9:20 pm

roller24 wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 05, 2021 2:19 pm

I knew you were bipolar

Who the fuck are you talking to?

roller24 wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 05, 2021 10:35 pm

Sorry my joke went over your head.

Roots wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 06, 2021 12:19 pm

Someone needs to explain to Prawn how ball stamps work.

roller24 wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:33 pm

on topic.

Intrinsic wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 07, 2021 10:30 am

Or the alternative hypothesis you are about to spread more coronavirus/vaccine misinformation.
Your paranoia is that strong you never considered? The furtive fallacy is magaheads bread and butter.

Example of furtive fallacy is the video munchy posted above. yes people know what the Wuhan and other labs were doing. that's how we know so much about coronavirus and we were able to code a vaccine quickly. D'OH! Know your enemy.
"leaked evidence" lol. idiot.
Russell Brand video provides zero, none, nada, zilch evidence of lab leak, asummes nefarious intent, provide rationale not to vaccinate, uses furtive fallacy.

Russell Brand the English Jimmy Dore? Idiot.

Prawn Connery wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 07, 2021 11:01 am

But roots has got . . .

THE BIGGEST BALLS OF ALL!

Psst, show us your balls roots. You know, the ones with the smiley face.

Prawn Connery wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 07, 2021 11:01 am

But roots has got . . .

THE BIGGEST BALLS OF ALL!

Psst, show us your balls roots. You know, the ones with the smiley face.

roller24 wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 07, 2021 11:45 am

Munchy wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 07, 2021 12:46 pm

Prawn Connery wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 07, 2021 11:01 am

But roots has got . . .

THE BIGGEST BALLS OF ALL!

Psst, show us your balls roots. You know, the ones with the smiley face.

DO NOT. NO SUCH PIX ARE ALLOWED. THANK YOU.

Munchy wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 07, 2021 12:46 pm

DO NOT. NO SUCH PIX ARE ALLOWED. THANK YOU.

Intrinsic wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 07, 2021 10:30 am

...video munchy posted above. yes people know what the Wuhan and other labs were doing.

Russell Brand video provides zero, none, nada, zilch evidence of lab leak, asummes nefarious intent, provide rationale not to vaccinate, uses furtive fallacy.

roller24 wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 07, 2021 11:42 am

I think the true "furtive fallacy" here, is you claiming that anyone who doesnt align with your personal beliefs in an idiot.

Guano wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 07, 2021 6:36 pm

Boom like that!

roller24 wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 07, 2021 11:42 am

Intrinsic wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 07, 2021 10:30 am

Or the alternative hypothesis you are about to spread more coronavirus/vaccine misinformation.
Your paranoia is that strong you never considered? The furtive fallacy is magaheads bread and butter.

Actually it was an interview with Dr. Malone. The interviewer (Dr. Cottrell) tried several attempts to lead him down "furtive fallacy" rabbit holes, but he insisted to only discuss what he could touch and see within his own experience.
Also when my "paranoia" is shared by someone as bonified as Malone, and others in his field across the globe, it could be monikered "informed skepticism".

I think the true "furtive fallacy" here, is you claiming that anyone who doesnt align with your personal beliefs in an idiot.

RESEARCH ARTICLE
Cationic liposome-mediated RNA transfection
R W Malone, P L Felgner, and I M Verma
See all authors and affiliations

PNAS August 1, 1989 86 (16) 6077-6081; https://doi.org/10.1073/pnas.86.16.6077

I think you'll find he's not the boogey man he's been painted as the establishment.

I think you'll find he's not the boogey man he's been painted by the establishment.

• The vaccine rollout strayed from industry standard safety measures in order to speed production.

• Censorship of information for any alternate resolution other than vaccination.

• Concerns about continued boosters in abbreviated time frames.

• Questions why natural immunity's benefits were diminished in presence of such a narrow cohort of the population actually being at significant risk.

• The inability of doctors to treat patients according to their own judgement and further preventing any alternative treatments.

• Possibility of black swan event caused from unknown long term repercussions due to lack of standard trial testing. (ADE, Marek's Disease, HIV like Immunol disorders etc)

Intrinsic wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 08, 2021 10:56 am

Second I don't think people are idiots that don't align with my personal beliefs. I think they're idiots when their believes don't align with facts.

roller24 wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 08, 2021 8:55 pm

Actually, that is a typo.

 healthy portion of the population to use early treatment with medications and natural immunity response...

rSin wrote: ↑

Sat Oct 09, 2021 4:28 pm

my reading informs that the more shots you get
the greater chance you have of both
activating latent viruses
like shingles

and inactivating your immune response to many of the things you got shots for way back when...


i think thats right

is it?

Intrinsic wrote: ↑

Sat Oct 09, 2021 11:14 pm

roller24 wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 08, 2021 8:55 pm

Actually, that is a typo.

No worries, I figured out what you meant by context.

The vaccine rollout strayed from industry standard safety measures in order to speed production.
That's not true. it went through the stanard three stage trials and FDA bureaucracy rechecking data. standard operating procedures, no safety measures bypassed. nothing rushed that I ever heard of. excruciating slow trails, to me.
What was rushed was production paralleling the trials, a gamble to expedite production. Only thing lost would have been money and time not safety.

Dr. Malone: No. My concern here, as I said in our prior interview, is that there’s been a series of actions taken, policies taken, regulatory actions taken, that are at odds with how I’ve been trained with the norms as I’ve always understood them. The regulatory norms, the scientific norms—these things have been waived. For a lot of people, it doesn’t make sense.

And recall, reeling back, what triggered this was this amazing podcast with Bret Weinstein and Steve Kirsch, where I don’t think at that point in time the world had really heard anyone questioning the underlying safety data assumptions and ethics of what was being done. There was a widespread sense of unease about these mandates and efforts to force vaccinations, and expedite the licensure of this and deploy it globally on the basis of very abbreviated clinical trials. There was a widespread sense of uneasiness.

But people didn’t really have language to express it. When that podcast happened, for some reason, it catalyzed global interest in a way that I didn’t expect. I still have people writing me, “I just saw the Bret Weinstein DarkHorse Podcast.” Something happened there, where events came together. I expressed some things that I had just been observing that I felt were anomalous in how the government was managing the situation, in the nature of the vaccines, in the testing of the vaccines, and in the ethics of how they were being deployed and forced on children, plus other things in various countries, including the United States.

That triggered a whole cascade, but it wasn’t because I had concerns about the technology or was casting shade on the technology, I’ve repeatedly made it clear that, in my opinion, these vaccines have saved lives. I get challenged on that all the time, by the way. There’s a whole cohort that says, “Oh no, these aren’t worth anything. They shouldn’t be used at all. They’re not effective.”

In my opinion, they’ve saved a lot of lives and they’re very appropriate at this point in time. The risk benefit favors administration of these vaccines, even with all we’ve learned since in these last few months, it favors their administration to the elderly and the high-risk populations. So contrary to this thread of I’m trying to denigrate these and tear them down—no, I’m trying to say I’m all in favor, strongly in favor of ethical development and deployment of vaccines that are safe, pure, effective, and non-adulterated.

Censorship of information for any alternate resolution other than vaccination.
hmmm, Did any of that get through censorship, else how would anyone know? Or jes poo pooed as bad science. I would expect the informal furitve fallacy assuming all censorship is evil. (You cannot yell fire in a crowded theater.)

Dr. Robert Malone: We’re now in this odd position, where there are groups of physicians that believe that they have protocols that are quite effective in preventing death and disease and hospitalization. When deployed early, their ability to employ these methods and these agents is being actively resisted by the government and by various large national organizations.

With physicians not being allowed to prescribe, pharmacies not filling physicians prescriptions, physicians being prohibited from practicing what they believe to be good medicine in hospital environments, and overlaying this is the sense that those who discuss these matters are subject to censor or censure, in the form of risking losing their medical license.

That is something that has been threatened by the national medical board and has been implemented in some other countries like the UK and Canada. And that’s also, I think, created an even more sense of unease and consternation. Why would the government be denigrating these agents that are known to be safe—have been used for decades.

Concerns about continued boosters in abbreviated time frames.
I don't know what this means.
The only concerns I know about boosters is the question if more single shots(people) versus third shots, after the booster trials are finished.

Dr. Malone: Precisely. But one of the things about the Israeli data is that they vaccinated in such a bolus, in such a short push, because they have such a compliant population, that essentially, they have a spike in vaccinated persons. So they’re all moving concurrently through that six month window now.

There was a pivotal interview with the director of the CDC and she was asked, “Do we have any data? Do we have data, or do we just have hope about the benefits of the third dose?” And she, to her credit, acknowledged that we don’t have data. All we have is hope.

Here’s the problem with that. Vaccine responses are not linear. More is not better. There are many cases where if you dose more or dose more frequently or move beyond a prime and a boost, you can actually quench the immune response. You can move into “high zone tolerance.” You can move into a situation where your immune responses drop.

Now there’s a little bit of foreshadowing on this in another paper that’s out where they looked at the effects of vaccination post-infection. Remember this was the policy, that those like me that have been infected should go ahead and take two jabs, take two doses of vaccine.

*Questions why natural immunity's benefits were diminished in presence of such a narrow cohort of the population actually being at significant risk.

Dr. Malone: I’ve seen data suggesting that the total population right now that’s been infected in the United States is something like about 20 per cent of the total population. We don’t have that widespread of an uptake of infection in the U.S. or in the UK. UK data also shows those kinds of numbers. They’re reflected in a cohort that have had a natural infection and recovered from that, and then acquired the immune response associated with that.

It’s seen in the numbers, for instance, in those cases where there is an accounting, such as in the Great Britain database, the British database, where they say the fraction of the population that’s been vaccinated, and then the fraction of the population that’s acquired natural immunity. It’s also covered in the CDC slide deck that was leaked. I don’t think that was available when we had our last conversation.

At the early outset, at the front edge of the Delta outbreak here in the United States, there was a key slide deck that was disclosed to the Washington Post without approval by a CDC employee. Within that slide deck, it showed a number of confidential internal assessments that weren’t intended to be shared with the public. Those assessments also included an estimate that we had something like 50 per cent of the population that had accepted vaccine at that point in time. In addition, there was something like 20 per cent of the population that had been infected.

So if you add those two, if you were to consider natural infection as providing some degree of protection against the virus, then we would move from something like 50 per cent vaccine uptake to something like 70 per cent of the population at that point in time that had actually acquired some form of immunity either through vaccination or infection. So that’s the basis of my seat-of-the-pants estimate.

*The inability of doctors to treat patients according to their own judgement and further preventing any alternative treatments.

This can be grouped with the above quote about censorship.

*Possibility of black swan event caused from unknown long term repercussions due to lack of standard trial testing. (ADE, Marek's Disease, HIV like Immunol disorders etc)[/b]

First one don't understand, all I can say for sure vaccination increases natural immunization significantly in terms of the numbers of hospitalizations and deaths. And the numbers of hospitalization and death show vaccination immunization is 10 times better than NO immunization.

Third one, What lack of standard trial testing? Everything I read was painstakingly slow, standard procedures, with suspensions, halts and delays along the way from glitches in the data and results.
None of these studies know what long term effects will be. Most undergo years of trials.

Dr. Malone: No. My concern here, as I said in our prior interview, is that there’s been a series of actions taken, policies taken, regulatory actions taken, that are at odds with how I’ve been trained with the norms as I’ve always understood them. The regulatory norms, the scientific norms—these things have been waived. For a lot of people, it doesn’t make sense.

And recall, reeling back, what triggered this was this amazing podcast with Bret Weinstein and Steve Kirsch, where I don’t think at that point in time the world had really heard anyone questioning the underlying safety data assumptions and ethics of what was being done. There was a widespread sense of unease about these mandates and efforts to force vaccinations, and expedite the licensure of this and deploy it globally on the basis of very abbreviated clinical trials. There was a widespread sense of uneasiness.

But people didn’t really have language to express it. When that podcast happened, for some reason, it catalyzed global interest in a way that I didn’t expect. I still have people writing me, “I just saw the Bret Weinstein DarkHorse Podcast.” Something happened there, where events came together. I expressed some things that I had just been observing that I felt were anomalous in how the government was managing the situation, in the nature of the vaccines, in the testing of the vaccines, and in the ethics of how they were being deployed and forced on children, plus other things in various countries, including the United States.

That triggered a whole cascade, but it wasn’t because I had concerns about the technology or was casting shade on the technology, I’ve repeatedly made it clear that, in my opinion, these vaccines have saved lives. I get challenged on that all the time, by the way. There’s a whole cohort that says, “Oh no, these aren’t worth anything. They shouldn’t be used at all. They’re not effective.”

In my opinion, they’ve saved a lot of lives and they’re very appropriate at this point in time. The risk benefit favors administration of these vaccines, even with all we’ve learned since in these last few months, it favors their administration to the elderly and the high-risk populations. So contrary to this thread of I’m trying to denigrate these and tear them down—no, I’m trying to say I’m all in favor, strongly in favor of ethical development and deployment of vaccines that are safe, pure, effective, and non-adulterated.

I’m really strongly dug in that we need to confront the data as it is, and not try to cover stuff up or hide risks or avoid confronting risks. In my opinion, the way that we get to good public policy in public health is we not only recognize those risks, but we also constantly take the position of looking forward, looking for leading indicators of risk, performing risk mitigation, and monitoring for black swans and unexpected events surrounding that.

That’s where I come from, strongly believing that the norms that have been developed over the last 30 to 40 years in vaccinology should be maintained. We shouldn’t jettison them just because we’re having a crisis.

 healthy portion of the population to use early treatment with medications and natural immunity response...

I'm sorry but that's advocating for hundreds of thousands of people to die. Hospitals be overrun again. Let's not do that again!! fuk!

Anyway that's my critique, I would suspect that's why it was censored. The Establishment labeled as misinformation cuz of the science and yanno advocating potential mass deaths.

Mr. Jekielek: The Great Barrington Declaration?

Dr. Malone: Yes, the Great Barrington Declaration. After that whole matrix of decisions, in comes Sweden. You may recall that Sweden was roundly criticized for this naive notion that they weren’t going to vaccinate. They were going to allow the virus to have its will with the population. They have backtracked from that now, to be technically accurate. They have about 40 per cent vaccine uptake and they’ve acknowledged that position was naive and counterproductive. They had excess deaths initially in the high-risk cohorts.

But what they did do was have a lot more natural infection with alpha and beta strains. And now that Delta is moving through the region, they have an extremely low mortality rate, often hitting zero on any one day—in comparison to some of their neighbors that didn’t take that policy, and didn’t have such widespread natural infection. Like Finland, for example, where they deployed vaccine very avidly and had good uptake, they’re having the exponential growth rate curve that’s happening in many other Northern European countries right now.

Mr. Jekielek: I’m going to comment here. This is very interesting because you’re interpreting this data a bit differently than Dr. Martin Kulldorff, who is from Sweden. His commentary in a recent interview we did was simply that there were no mandates of any sort ever in Sweden, yet their vaccine use is actually quite high. He said it’s one of the higher rates that exist. But he didn’t factor in this time period that you said at the beginning, where there was this idea of letting the natural infections happen. And you’re saying the reason their rates are zero mortality is because of that.

Dr. Malone: Yes. It is a very reasonable explanation for what’s happened there. It’s a differentiator between them and some of their neighboring countries. They did have that early policy and they did have fairly widespread infection. So that would be consistent with the data suggesting that natural infection is providing broader and more durable immunity.

This gets to the logic of a selective deployment of vaccines to those that are at highest risk. For that fragment of the population, let’s say below 65, depending on where you want to cut the line, 60, 65, 70, some people go down to 55, not providing vaccine coverage to those individuals unless they’re in a very high risk population, morbidly obese, or with immunologic deficiencies—that may be a more enlightened public policy.

By the way, it is one more consistent with the WHO position that we still have limited vaccine supply, and it would be far more appropriate and equitable to deploy that vaccine supply more broadly globally to protect the elders in particular throughout the world, rather than this focus on universal vaccination.

Thanks for the recap roller.