UKRAINE & EU v RUSSIA part 2

[dill786]

Georgia wants to join the EU too

wonder what's going to happen there...

[Prawn Connery]

Georgia wants to join the EU too

wonder what's going to happen there...

Isn't it obvious? All these countries want to join the EU or NATO because they don't trust Putin and would rather be part of Europe than Russia.

No-one forces anyone to join NATO or the EU.

You guys can blame the US all you want, but if Russia had a trustworthy, non-interventionist government with a modern, corrupt-free economy, then maybe its neighbours wouldn't be lining up against it right now.

But Putin is a murderous dictator who invades other countries and doesn't give a shit about his own people (whom he is sending off to slaughter in Ukraine) – so what's to like?

[roller24]

Forced, no.
Bribed? Maybe.
Is Bribe to strong a word here?

Prime Minister Irakli Kobakhidze announced the ruling Georgian Dream party’s decision to reject the accession negotiations with the EU until 2028 and to refuse all budget support from the EU during a briefing on November 28.
According to Kobakhidze, EU-Georgian relations should be reciprocal and as a proud and self-respecting nation, Georgians categorically would not want to see EU integration as charity. EU integration process for Georgia has already been frozen by Brussels due to the 'Russian Law' and GD government's lack of commitment to the reforms essential for the accession.
Irakli Kobakhidze's statement comes after the resolution of the European Parliament to sanction GD high officials and statements from a German Ambassador to Georgia Peter Fischer aired on BMG yesterday.

Hey, the same thing happened in Ukraine.

Under Article IV of the IMF's Articles of Agreement, the IMF holds bilateral discussions with member countries, usually on an annual basis. During these consultations, a staff team visits the country and assesses its economic and financial status.

Seems the IMF just wrapped up a Georgia https://bm.ge/en/news/results-of-the-la ... ets-294788

Protesters clash with Georgian police over government's EU application delay
By Felix Light
November 28, 20246:06 PM ESTUpdated 3 hours ago
TBILISI, Nov 28 (Reuters) - Police clashed with protesters in the Georgian capital Tbilisi early on Friday, after the country's ruling party said the government would suspend talks on European Union accession and refuse budgetary grants until 2028.
The country's interior ministry said three police officers were injured.
Police ordered protesters to disperse, fired water cannon and deployed pepper spray and tear gas as masked young people tried to smash their way into the parliament. Some protesters tossed fireworks at police while shouting "Russians" and "Slaves!"

Hey the same thing happened in Ukraine.

The Open Society Georgia Foundation began its work in 1994, as the country was still dealing with the economic and political tumult that followed its independence three years earlier from the failing Soviet Union.
The foundation’s initial programs focused on helping Georgians weather the difficult economic and social transitions then underway—providing equipment, technology, and expertise to schools, universities, health care facilities, media outlets, and cultural institutions.

Hey the Soros foundation was in Ukraine too.

A visit of the U.S. Under Secretary of State for Civilian Security, Democracy, and Human Rights, Uzra Zeya, comes at this crucial time. The Under Secretary spoke with government officials and engaged representatives of the opposition parties and civil society on democratic governance, anti-corruption, media freedom, freedom of expression, and the inclusion of marginalized and vulnerable groups.

Of course the US state department should visit to "check in " on things.

So many parallels?!

[Prawn Connery]

Why don't you explain to us all how the US "forced" neutral Sweden and Finland to join NATO?

These are not tin-pot, piss-poor former Soviet states that can be "bribed", but modern democracies with first-world economies. Sweden, in particular, had been neutral for 200 years, through all European conflicts including WW1 and WW2.

Funny how you guys never mention that when blaming everyone else but Russia for NATO's expansion.

Did you see how many nations joined NATO when Boris Yeltsin (who was friendly to Europe and the US) was President?

None.

Did you see how many nations joined NATO from 1999 when Putin rose to power?

16!!!

Such a concidence, eh?

< Not coz I don't like you, roller, but I just wanted to use that smilie

[roller24]

blame everyone else but Putin.

My objective in the multiple years of this thread is to retort your claim that we only blame Putin.

I find it hard to believe that anyone would remain so adamant as to wholly blame Putin for the war after reading 2010-2014 articles.

That's all we've said for the most part. It takes two to tango is a cliche for a reason.
Others maintain that Ukraine is a victim of Russian aggression and that Putin alone is to blame.
Now instead of allowing an open debate, the establishment ridicules, censors, and exiles all that oppose the latter viewpoint.

(many such examples)

If you ask me to name one entity responsible, my answer is based on my observations going back in time to when I began paying attention to the policies of global politics. It's not Putin, Trump, Biden, Ghaddafi, Hussein, Nixon, Stalin, Roosevelt, or any of the scapegoats, heroes, and other puppets who have passed through the spotlight of popularity or notoriety through history. It's not the U.S., Russia, Libya, Iran, Israel, China, or any of the other state actors, and theaters used as game boards and pieces to gain control over the vast resources of the earth. I blame the puppeteers. The usurers, the faction of men who driven by greed and power to amass wealth and control by controlling the method in which value is exchanged. Taking their cut of every exchange without ever having the need to excerpt their own labor, or innovation. They are the ones who always benefit from each war. Financing both sides of each conflict, with little regard of the outcome, because through the debts incurred, they gain control over the land and it's resources, to then divvy out to the masses in exchange for the fruits of their labor and the blood they spill doing the masters' bidding.

This is why you call me a Conspiracy Theorist, but when you step back and look at the whole picture, just find the men that always come out on top.

[roller24]

came home and this popped on my screen. It's a pretty good breakdown of details regarding what I was trying to convey.

[Prawn Connery]

blame everyone else but Putin.

My objective in the multiple years of this thread is to retort your claim that we only blame Putin.

I find it hard to believe that anyone would remain so adamant as to wholly blame Putin for the war after reading 2010-2014 articles.

That's all we've said for the most part. It takes two to tango is a cliche for a reason.
Others maintain that Ukraine is a victim of Russian aggression and that Putin alone is to blame.
Now instead of allowing an open debate, the establishment ridicules, censors, and exiles all that oppose the latter viewpoint.

(many such examples)

If you ask me to name one entity responsible, my answer is based on my observations going back in time to when I began paying attention to the policies of global politics. It's not Putin, Trump, Biden, Ghaddafi, Hussein, Nixon, Stalin, Roosevelt, or any of the scapegoats, heroes, and other puppets who have passed through the spotlight of popularity or notoriety through history. It's not the U.S., Russia, Libya, Iran, Israel, China, or any of the other state actors, and theaters used as game boards and pieces to gain control over the vast resources of the earth. I blame the puppeteers. The usurers, the faction of men who driven by greed and power to amass wealth and control by controlling the method in which value is exchanged. Taking their cut of every exchange without ever having the need to excerpt their own labor, or innovation. They are the ones who always benefit from each war. Financing both sides of each conflict, with little regard of the outcome, because through the debts incurred, they gain control over the land and it's resources, to then divvy out to the masses in exchange for the fruits of their labor and the blood they spill doing the masters' bidding.

This is why you call me a Conspiracy Theorist, but when you step back and look at the whole picture, just find the men that always come out on top.

And who are those "Dark Lords" roller? Always the Shadowmen, eh? You guys watch too much TV.

Or maybe it's this bloke:

Jack Michael Posobiec III is an American alt-right political activist, television correspondent and presenter, conspiracy theorist, and former United States Navy intelligence officer.

Posobiec is known for his pro-Donald Trump comments on Twitter, and has used white supremacist and antisemitic symbols and talking points, including the white genocide conspiracy theory. He has promoted fake news, including the debunked Pizzagate conspiracy theory claiming high-ranking Democratic Party officials were involved in a child sex ring. He was also a promoter of the Stop the Steal movement. From 2018 to 2021, Posobiec was employed by One America News Network (OANN), a far-right cable channel, as a political correspondent and on-air presenter.

Why do you believe these nutjobs?

[Prawn Connery]

I notice you mention Stalin et al but not Hitler. Hitler is perhaps a prime example of someone who was enabled by others but who's own ambitions – shared and facilitated by those around him – destroyed Europe.

You want conspiracy theories? Well the parrallels between Hitler and Putin are ominous. Both rebuilt their countries after massive economic downturns (WW1 reparations vs collapse of USSR). Both dreamt of restoring their nations to their "rightful place" by invading "traditional homelands" (Rhineland/Austria/Czechoslovakia/Poland vs Chechnya/Geogia/Soth Ossetia/Abkhazia/Crimea/Ukraine). Both assassinated their political oponents. Both became dictators under the guise of "democractic elections". Both built Nazi armies to do their dirty work (brownshirts vs Wagner). Both claimed they posed no further threat to Europe. Etc

You are right that it is never one man – it is always one figurehead ably assisted by those around him. And perhaps these are the "Darl Lords" you speak of. But not a single one of them managed to stand up to those figureheads – which is why their names are not writ prominently in history. Because a lot of them tried to wash their hands and claim they were only "following orders".

But ultimately, Putin – like Hitler – is/was an evil, delusional, meglomaniac who used his people's resources to wage his own vendettas and realise his own expansionist dreams.

None of this absolves the US of its bloody hegemoney and meddling in world affairs over the past 80 years or more (particularly since WW2), but if you can't tell the difference between influencing/coercing/bribing and bullying with boots on the ground invading sovereign nations, then I guess you really are in your own little "Dark Lord" fantasy world. Just like the bozo in the video above. Although I would hope you are not that gullible.

[dill786]

Ukraine is an artificial state created by the Bolsheviks in 1917.

Putin is one of the greatest politicians in the last 50 years.

[Prawn Connery]

Ukraine is an artificial state created by the Bolsheviks in 1917.

Putin is one of the greatest politicians in the last 50 years.

And Pakistan is an artificial state created by the British Raj in 1947. By rights, India should rule the entire sub-continent and force everyone to speak Hindi and become Hindus.

Hitler was also one of the greatest politicians of the 20th Century.

What's your point?