Hands up those who think this latest whistleblower is real

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Hands up those who think this latest whistleblower is real

Post by Intrinsic »

Yo, sound the bell, school's in, sucka ~ MC Hammer

Impeachment hearing just gave us a Constitution lesson. Will the GOP bother to learn it?

https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2 ... accused-of" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Since the hearings began in earnest three weeks ago, Republicans in the U.S. House of Representatives have argued over and over that President Trump’s behavior in asking Ukraine to investigate former Vice President Joe Biden falls short of justifying the extreme sanction of impeachment.
On Wednesday, three law professors who testified before the House Judiciary Committee effectively dismantled that defense, arguing persuasively that the framers of the Constitution intended impeachment as a curb on exactly that sort of abuse of power.

Although the professors’ testimony on constitutional law and history was less dramatic than the factual accounts provided by a series of witnesses before the House Intelligence Committee, it was nevertheless important. Despite the fact that three presidents (including Trump) have been subjected to impeachment investigations in the last 45 years, the public understandably remains confused about the purpose of impeachment and the offenses for which a president can reasonably be put on trial by the Senate. That confusion makes it easier for Trump’s defenders to argue that the Democrats who launched this investigation are motivated purely by politics.

Article II of the Constitution says that the president and other officials can be impeached and removed from office for “treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors.” Three of Tuesday’s witnesses — the ones who had been called by the Democrats — made a powerful case that Trump had committed offenses that would be deemed impeachable by the founders who wrote that constitutional restraint.


Turley also agreed with other scholars that “it is possible to impeach a president for noncriminal acts.” He noted, however, that Presidents Nixon and Clinton were accused in articles of impeachment of committing crimes and suggested that impeaching a president solely on grounds of misconduct that wasn’t criminal would be a mistake.

We disagree. A president can commit an egregious abuse of power without violating a criminal statute. And the inclusion of “bribery” among the “high crimes and misdemeanors” justifying impeachment isn’t a reference to bribery as defined in federal criminal law. As Karlan noted, “bribery” in the impeachment clause refers to any situation in which an official “solicited, received or offered a person a favor or benefit to influence official action — that is, putting his private welfare above the national interest.” That is precisely what Trump is accused of doing in withholding congressionally approved aid to Ukraine in order to extract a political “favor” for himself from the Ukrainian president.

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Post by Intrinsic »

FWIW It was Bill Taylor, the top diplomat in Ukraine that I remembered quote about quitting.

September 8, text message from Taylor to Sondland saying "nightmare is they (the Ukrainians) give the interview and don't get the security assistance. The Russians love it. (And I quit.)."

The following day, September 9, Taylor wrote to both Volker and Sondland. "I think it's crazy to withhold security assistance for help with a political campaign."

He did not learn details of the president's July 25 phone call with Zelensky until September 25, when the White House released a summary of the call. 

"Although this was the first time I had seen the details of President Trump's July 25 call with President Zelenskyy, in which he mentioned Vice President Biden, I had come to understand well before then that 'investigations' was a term that Ambassadors Volker and Sondland used to mean matters related to the 2016 elections, and to investigations of Burisma and the Bidens," Taylor wrote.

The longtime U.S. diplomat left Capitol Hill shortly before 8 p.m. Tuesday night, after 9.5 hours of testimony.

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Post by Butcher Bob »

:facepalm: ......missed the point completely.....just like the FBI. :tup:

Your failure to acknowledge the magnitude of the difference in severity between the revelations brought to light by these whistleblowers speaks volumes aboot your intent. Is like the FBI saying the IG's report vindicates them...even after the IG testifies that it does not...so offensive a claim that the FISA court has come out to publically rebuke them.

Instead your retort is an attempt to smear me (laughable), an opinion from an editorial board whose own mission statement is to sway public opinion if they feel the facts presented are not enough to do so, and a presumption given weeks before the individual was presented the evidence for his basis.

You and the dem leadership have your faces so far into the national security slop trough, that you fail to notice you are at the slaughter house.

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Post by Intrinsic »

So did Sensenbrenner today,
he needs to be schooled.

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Post by Intrinsic »

No I wasn't ignoring your point I was just critiquing the evidence you provided for your premise. And I got tired of repeating myself using my own words. so I just resorted cut and paste, and it was amusing

And appropriate giving the debate going on on the Congress floor. Dare I say prescience...

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Post by Butcher Bob »

Only one rep abstained from voting, with the rest voting 'no'.
While two dems abstained, one voted 'present', and two defected on article I and three defected on article II.

So, it is a partisan effort, with bi-partisan opposition....so far.

The minority whip and the minority speaker for the vote, both mentioned the disregard of the rule concerning minority witness hearings.

The one very strong point I saw, coming from reps several times, was the forwarning to dems, that they may regret the low evidenciary standard being set, when it gets used against them in the future.

I think history will reflect very poorly on the dems for this. The senate will not remove Trump, and it is very likely they will return a majority acquittal. If the dems are unable to acquire a single rep vote in the senate, history will view this as a partisan manuver...dems will only be remembered for their obstruction of the president.

Tulsi, the lone 'present' vote, gave the best summation I've seen...

“I could not in good conscience vote against impeachment because I believe President Trump is guilty of wrongdoing. I also could not in good conscience vote for impeachment because removal of a sitting President must not be the culmination of a partisan process, fueled by tribal animosities that have so gravely divided our country.”

This 'whistleblower' is nothing of the sort...it is merely a vindictive leak and media psy-op.

What happens to real whistleblowers?...exile, imprisonment, torture...

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Hands up those who think this latest whistleblower is real

Post by rSin »

Butcher Bob wrote:Only one rep abstained from voting, with the rest voting 'no'.
While two dems abstained, one voted 'present', and two defected on article I and three defected on article II.

So, it is a partisan effort, with bi-partisan opposition....so far.

The minority whip and the minority speaker for the vote, both mentioned the disregard of the rule concerning minority witness hearings.

The one very strong point I saw, coming from reps several times, was the forwarning to dems, that they may regret the low evidenciary standard being set, when it gets used against them in the future.

I think history will reflect very poorly on the dems for this. The senate will not remove Trump, and it is very likely they will return a majority acquittal. If the dems are unable to acquire a single rep vote in the senate, history will view this as a partisan manuver...dems will only be remembered for their obstruction of the president.

Tulsi, the lone 'present' vote, gave the best summation I've seen...

“I could not in good conscience vote against impeachment because I believe President Trump is guilty of wrongdoing. I also could not in good conscience vote for impeachment because removal of a sitting President must not be the culmination of a partisan process, fueled by tribal animosities that have so gravely divided our country.”

This 'whistleblower' is nothing of the sort...it is merely a vindictive leak and media psy-op.

What happens to real whistleblowers?...exile, imprisonment, torture...

so I missed a week
please god tell me theres a second and hopefully third paragraph to tulsi's statement your leaving out

which correctly expresses frames the slander

your opinions revolve around here...
the intolerance of the old order is emerging from the rosy mist in which it has hitherto been obscured.

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Post by Intrinsic »

Butcher Bob wrote:who provided very weak questionable evidence, of what some legal experts aren't even sure is a crime,
Intrinsic wrote: Care to give what you saw as very weak evidence in the whistleblower report?

Tumbleweeds

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Post by Butcher Bob »

I saw Tulsi do appearances on both Jimmy Dore and The Hill that night to explain her position.





Now Pelosi is holding on to the charges...meddling with the election process.

If she holds on to them until primaries start, she will affectively knock Sanders and Warren out of the race by forcing them to sit in a trial rather than campaigning at a crucial point...and it will also destroy Biden's chance by having his name drug through the mud in proceedings during that same period. Couldn't wait on a court ruling on whether the executive branch can ignore a congressional impeachment hearing subpoena...but now we do have time to wait before continuing the process?

Do you know what senate dems were doing the day of the vote?....giving Trump 10 more federal court judges.
And the day after the vote, the house dems give Trump the USMCA.
AND they just gave the health industry a $373 Billion tax break...the bulk of which went to insurance and pharmaceutical companies.

These fukkers don't want Trump out...he is doing far more for their donors than they ever could.

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Post by Butcher Bob »

For shits & giggles I'll play along.
Intrinsic wrote:Care to give what you saw as weak evidence in the whistleblower report?
Quid pro quo was never directly stated. The best the dems can do is to say it's implied...which is opinion, not evidence. And while they play word salad to arrive at their conclusion, they conveniently ignore three words..."...if that's possible." Now I've been privy to many illegal deals in my lifetime, and when one party has coercive power over the other, I have never, ever heard that phrase used.

And as I understand things, some members of the intelligence community were indeed worried what affect corruption would have on our government...specifically they were concerned aboot a corrupt foreign company appointing the son of our VP to their board, as a method of influencing our government's decisions regarding them. With that consideration in mind it would seem quite reasonable for our president to ask their president to look into it.

If the dems are truely concerned that Trump is a russian asset...
...why did they increase his spying powers?
...why did they give him a $131 Billion increase to an already bloated military budget?
...why did they give him everything he wanted in the NDAA, without a single concession?

Calling it weak evidence might be an understatement.

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