Just another white widow thread

[Irwin the Troll]

ATM, I have
1 ww f 49 days in
2 ww cloned f 14 days in
3 Tang. Dream clones in rooting chamber
1 ww mom
1 Tangerine Dream mom
6 ww seeds reg
100+ ww/m X td/f seeds
50+ ww/m X auto mazar/f seeds

I havent tried to germ any of the seeds, I crossed, but will make a thread when I do, if successful. They were crossed late, so I am not sure if seeds matured enough?.

[deran]

curious bc there has been progression within the breeding of WW

as you all know, shantibaba is supposed to have the original (with their parental stock) , which is now called black widow
but it seems to have changed compared to what white widow was in the mid 90s .. if you are looking for that phenotype, which is less stony more sativa, and more fruity/flower like in smell, i heard that the version from dutch passion is the way to go, as somebody from their company managed to steal / grab / pinch off a cut of the cup winning mom / genetics, which were shown and presented at one of the cups in amsterdam .. hightimes cup or highlife or whatever
if you prefer more the taste and less the effect, i heard ingemar and his numerous white widow and widow "clones" are the way to go, also they are more rigid and pest resistant than the other products
further more , luc from paradise seeds, our old sponsor, you might remember him ... has an IBL version of the widow which is supposed to be the real deal in terms of effect and stoned and high, as it was inline bred and further refined, with the right perspectives and goals in mind

and least but not last, i got in the fridge an official F2 version from blimburn seeds, its makup reads ww F1 X ww F1 , more infos on the parents will come with time, when i dive into em, except somebody in here is bitin his fingernails, i could ask this spanish seed bank for more infos about their gentics

so irwin

seedsman is just a vendor, not the breeder, and thats whats most important, not the place where you can buy it, the place / ppl who are producing it ...

boom shakar !

[MadMoonMan]

I try to go with original breeders as best I can over the years.

[MadMoonMan]

What I'm saying is there is a noticeable genetic drift. Whether its good or bad Is another story.

[Prawn Connery]

boom shakar !

Haha! I used to hang out with a couple of Indian "babas" when I lived in Hong Kong in the early 90s and all they ever said was "Boom Shanka!" every time they lit up!

"Boom Baba! Pass the chilom . . ."

[Prawn Connery]

Hey Irwin, is that the WW you had in the other thread? It's looking good, man. Have you repotted it yet?

Luc's WW was bred from Ingemar originals. I'm also pretty certain that Nebula is a WW cross from that same stock.

deran, what's your take on Ingemar vs Shanti?

[deran]

hey mate

id like respond with my own opinion, which is impossible bc i havent had shantis genetics below the bulb, but as you all might know, im also a member over at mrnice forums, and ive become slightly skeptical reading black widow threads over there, speaking of hermies, low yields and even sometimes bad potency ... while all other variables arent fixed, sativa high, indica high, mixed high, good yield, low yield, etc etc ...
compared to those widdows i had and i have "managed" at other places shantis are (only by looks) darker with more chlorophyll, less stretchy with slighty shorter internode distances, but with the known limby fragile structure and the buds arent anymore pyramid like sativa towers, similiar like c99, they have become more cylindrical without the top tip, furthermore the crystalline appearance has changed, its still the same amount, but seemed to disappear from the large fan leafs ... bc that was the special thing about her, what nobody has seen before the widdow in europe .. crystals on large fan leafs ... but hey, they are gone again .. lasted just for 20 years ... lol
wihtout a doubt there is more indica genes in shantis widows, but not having grown her i cant say more

nebula was fuckin sweet, one of the sweetest buds i had, like honey, like sugar, like ambrosia, like agave honey ... delicious ... havent had that much luck with potency, but bred the nebula males to to an ice girl from nirvana, and this cross called ifog, was better than both parents in every aspect, the high itself was on par with sensi star, this bam in your face - fuck im fucked and gonna die high/stoned, wihtout tollerance build up ... a good combo, and this combo wasnt even the top of the mountain, as the ice girl wasnt the famous ice pheno, which i had too, but no male at that time, and this ice pheno of ice is even double that powerful as the pheno i had to cross

i dont know which genes are responsible for its good performance, but it isin there, in ingemars work, tho i dont know how much time is needed .. thats another story

i cant make my mind up, for curiousity sakes id put this ranking up:

paradise: ww IBL
dutch passion: ww
shantis: bw

dutch passion will always be a winner, as its at least a bx1 , the stolen cut was bred with males from bought ww seed packs
depending how much work has beed done to make an IBL , different ppl will different definitions , at least a F4 , for me F8 an onwards, with good work, why not
and shanti , well its gonna be a surprise, bc when you read the rest of the forums, many question marks arise ones head, blinking WTF ??? in stereo ...

[Prawn Connery]

Nebula was the first Dutch strain I ever grew. Indeed, the first seeds I ever bought online - from Gypsy. In fact, I emailed him what I was looking for and he suggested Nebula. Some people might be a bit surprised that I ordered from Gypsy over the years, but I never had an issue doing business with him. I didn't have a lot of luck with his free Skunk#1 seeds . . . but hell, they were free, so what did I expect?

It was also through Gypsy I learned about OG in 2001.

Now, it's hard for me to comment on something I grew once, more than 15 years ago (I do recall it was sweet, like you said, and a very pleasant mix of slightly more sativa than indica), but some years later Luc gifted me a cross called "Nebulaze", which was a female Nebula/male SSH pairing. It was a bit variable, but I remember one pheno - which I continued to grow out for a while - was very SSH dominant with an incredible lemon-haze/metallic taste and an awesome head high. It took 12 weeks to finish, but was a huge producer. I also grew out Luc's "Super Sensi Star", which was the same SSH father crossed to a Sensi Star mother. One of these phenos also took up regular rotation in my grow room until I learned (after some time) that it was pollinating my other plants. Never found any male sacks on it, but as soon as I took it out of rotation, the seeding stopped (it was only mild seeding, so must have been one or two random male flowers). Luc did warn me about the possibility of hermaphrodism in both crosses from the SSH side, but the Nebulaze never hermed.

The Super Sensi Star was up with the most potent indoor strains I've grown and had a sweet, hazy lemon-berry (more like strawberry) flavour to it with a good combination of towering head high and relaxing body stone. The buds were haze-like, with long, sticky branches and a 10-11 week flowering time. The Nebulaze was more like little golf-ball buds stacked on top of each other to form foxtail-shaped branches.

Probably my favourite strain that I grew for years, and which everybody seemed to love (including myself!), was another Luc test-batch called "Sweet Haze" which I think was a Neville's Haze cross with an indica. Very short flowering for a mainly haze - 10-11 weeks - with a real catpiss stank to it. I nick-named it "Stinky Catpiss Haze", and the name stuck. It was then-on referred to as simply "Stinky Catpiss". It was day-time only smoke - unless you wanted to party all night - with an electric high that was all in the head and never a dull or lazy moment. One day, I went on a pub crawl with some of my mates and ate a couple of hash-cookies for breakfast on an empty stomach, then punched a few bucket bongs of Stinky Catpiss, then went outside higher than a fucking kite. I mean, so fucking high I don't know how I managed to walk down the street. Then the cookies kicked in.

At the first pub, I drank coke and sat in a corner with all my mates standing around laughing at the silly grin I had on my face - I didn't talk much, as you can imagine. At the second pub, a friend offered me a beer. I said "No, I shouldn't drink anything until I start to come down". He said "Go on, no-one else will drink it". So I drank it. At the third pub, one of my mates had to walk me outside and put me a cab home. I was fucked. I got home and my wife said "What happened?". I said "Alcohol" and went and lay down for four hours. The next day, the friend who had put me in a cab said he'd never seen me so white, and that I'd fainted in the street before getting in the cab. That's the worst I've ever been, but I still maintain if I hadn't drunk anything, I would have been OK after a couple of hours. I guess that kind of defeats the purpose of going on a pub crawl, though . . .

And that's pretty much the extent of my experience with Nev/Shanti strains, as they've all come to me by way of Luc crosses - none of which were ever commercially available. I do have some MNS Mango Haze in the fridge (for when I start growing again), and did grow out some CBD Skunk-Haze once, but wasn't that impressed. My wife is a med user, and the CBD strain didn't really help her as much as some of the blue strains I've grown (DJ Short's F13 being one of her favourite - though the F13 is a bit of a disaster IMO, apart from the high, which is not very strong or long-lasting).

[deran]

shantis mango haze = lucs delahaze

nebula x haze, still available in austria at flowery fields shop, as well as the famous lemon metal sensi star pheno yay

[Prawn Connery]

Yeah, I understand it's Lemon Skunk x Mango Haze. When you look at photos of it, it sure looks like an SSH type plant.

I'm pretty sure my Stinky Catpiss haze is closely related to what is now commercially available as Atomical Haze. The photos on Luc's website are almost identical to what mine looked like, and I seem to recall Luc telling me they had at least one of the same parents (Neville's Haze). The Stinky Catpiss is not sweet at all (except for an underlying rotten fruit stench with a touch of aniseed) - it is almost pure, sour-stinky haze. It was the only pheno in a 10-pack of femmed test seeds that wasn't sweet like the others (the test pack was labelled "Sweet Haze").

This one was was grown in an early incarnation of my vertical set-up and was only half a pound. Later, I would harvest up to a pound (15oz, actually - average 12oz) per plant in those same pots.