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More SPAM from Prawn (Psst - buy my LEDs)

PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:29 pm
by Prawn Connery
Here's an MPG first - it' a new LED panel design that will directly replace a 600W HPS with 400W of high-red, high colour index, full spectrum (UV to Far Red) LED light that also knocks a week or so off flowering times.

Someone I know has been working on this design for some time now. :winky:

It's a 450 LED panel with high efficiency, high CRI diodes designed to run in pairs with a 380W driver to be a direct replacement for a 600W HPS.

The test PCBs arrived today and the boards will have the LEDs assembled on Monday. Designed and assembled in Australia, the LEDs are from Japan (Nichia) and Korea (Seoul Semiconductor). The PCBs are made in China, and will come with matching heatsinks as an option.

The PCB is 415mm x 205mm x 2mm aluminium. The LEDs combine the most efficient 3030 LED available on the market with a super-high colour rendering index (CRI 98) LED and a near-UV/UVA white phosphor LED to create a very balanced spectrum from 380nm (UVA to promote THC production) to 730nm (far red for the Emerson Effect).

All the LEDs are high CRI: 90-98 - creating a white light very similar to afternoon (warm red) sunlight. The overall temperature is about 3100K.

Each panel is rated to a maximum 225W (450W per pair), but can be dimmed down for better heat management and efficiency. They're designed to flower continuously anywhere from 100-200W per panel.

I know some of this is a bit technical, but the reason this is such a unique design is because it's the first to combine ultra-high CRI and UVA white phosphor LEDs with a high-efficiency LED that can all be run on one driver (mutli-colour panels usually require two or more drivers to run each channel).

It's also unique as it has been designed as a direct replacement for a 600W HPS - covering a 3'x3' to 4'x4' area. We've been running a lot of grows on LEDs lately using different spectrums and types, and have discovered we can equal 600W horizontal HPS yields with about 400W of LED, while the extra red also finishes plants a week early (speeds up flowering).

Even though HPS has a warmer kelvin rating of about 2500K or so, it has a lot more yellow and green spectrum light in it. High amounts of red accelerate flowering and increase bio-mass, whilst blue keeps nodes shorter.

High CRI LEDs have the benefit of more blue and red light, and less green light - whilst still being a true white light (3100K). They give plants a natural look under light, too, as CRI90+ is very close to sunlight (which is obviously CRI 100). That makes it easier to identify plant problems and health.

I'll have a running update of how this all progresses, but I thought you guys might like to be the first to know..

Any questions, fire away :toker1:




Re: More SPAM from Prawn (Psst - buy my LEDs)

PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:38 pm
by Prawn Connery
Here are some of the LED experimental grows:






Re: More SPAM from Prawn (Psst - buy my LEDs)

PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:49 pm
by Prawn Connery
A few more. I love these things. :laugh:






Re: More SPAM from Prawn (Psst - buy my LEDs)

PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:28 pm
by Munchy
NICE! how much in US $ ? :toker1:

Re: More SPAM from Prawn (Psst - buy my LEDs)

PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:05 pm
by Intrinsic
Nice "spam". but is there a link for buying?

Yer using a vertical CFL also (can't quite give that up eh). how much do you think that's adding to the LED light production? or just difference in growth?

Wow the specs look awesome, maybe l left indoor growing just too early for the fun stuff.

awesome blossom pics! is this grow started with the new panel?

How is the heat issue, does the heatsink get too hot to touch? stays relatively cool?

Re: More SPAM from Prawn (Psst - buy my LEDs)

PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:17 pm
by Prawn Connery
Munchy wrote:NICE! how much in US $ ? :toker1:

Not too sure yet. I guess it depends how many we make and if anyone else's interested. We're making a limited number first, mainly as they're what we wanted for ourselves. It's really a LED panel made for growers, by growers.

They'll be mostly DIY panels and kits, with or without drivers, and wire yourself (red wire in the +, black wire in the - etc, it'll be that easy). Gotta see how well they work yet, but they should be pretty powerful if they go they way we hope.

Re: More SPAM from Prawn (Psst - buy my LEDs)

PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:24 pm
by Prawn Connery
Intrinsic wrote:Nice "spam". but is there a link for buying?

Yer using a vertical CFL also (can't quite give that up eh). how much do you think that's adding to the LED light production? or just difference in growth?

Wow the specs look awesome, maybe l left indoor growing just too early for the fun stuff.

awesome blossom pics! is this grow started with the new panel?

How is the heat issue, does the heatsink get too hot to touch? stays relatively cool?

The CFL was for one grow to see if added UV (CFL puts out a bit of UVA/B) made much difference (and also coz the sativas were getting unruly!). UV is usually missing from LEDs, while HPS has a little and MH and CMH have a fair bit more. That was the idea behind using a UVA white phosphor LED.

No, the new panels haven't been assembled and tested yet - we're at the PCB stage. But they should be ready next week. All the other pix are different LED panel and strip slights currently available on the market. That's how it all started: building LED strip and panel frames and wiring them up. We thought there might be a way to build a better mousetrap - there are no real LED panels that are modular designed to replace a 600HPS, the most common HID grow lamp. A lot of them are designed for a 4'x2' or 4'x4' area, with nothing for a square 3'x3' - again, a common size for 600W lamp grows.

400W vs 600W means 30% less heat for the same light output and yield.

Re: More SPAM from Prawn (Psst - buy my LEDs)

PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:36 pm
by Prawn Connery
I'm not really saying "Buy my LEDS", BTW - that was just a joke about SPAM :spam:

There might be some boards floating around for anyone interested, though


:emp:

Re: More SPAM from Prawn (Psst - buy my LEDs)

PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:52 pm
by Intrinsic
Thanks Prawn, My old growing area in the attic between joists is 4' x 8' perfect for this size.

Ahh i forgot abut the low UV thing with leds. tho i think leds can be engineered to produce a wide range of frequencies, but don't know if there are any out there with sufficient UV for our plants. if so perhaps an improvement in yer panel for the future.

Re: More SPAM from Prawn (Psst - buy my LEDs)

PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:05 am
by bentech
what would you say is the ideal canopy dimension for those panels?


assume less heat is allowing you to keep them closer to the plants than HID allows are you seeing even better results the simple watts to lumen increase over bulbs?

Re: More SPAM from Prawn (Psst - buy my LEDs)

PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:30 am
by Prawn Connery
Intrinsic wrote:Thanks Prawn, My old growing area in the attic between joists is 4' x 8' perfect for this size.

Ahh i forgot abut the low UV thing with leds. tho i think leds can be engineered to produce a wide range of frequencies, but don't know if there are any out there with sufficient UV for our plants. if so perhaps an improvement in yer panel for the future.

So all white LEDs start off as blue LEDs. An electrical charge is put through an anode, which jumps over to a cathode and emits energy at a certain frequency. In the case of nearly all white LEDs, the diode produces a bright blue light in the 450-460nm range. This blue light is then scattered using red and green phosphors which appear as the yellow "coating" you see on LEDs, such as the ones below.

Red phosphor + Green phosphor + Blue light = white (RGB colour).

The more red phosphor, the warmer the white colour. If you look at the LEDs below - which are incidentally one of the LEDs used in the new boards - you'll see the ones on the left are a bright yellow, and the ones on the right are more of an orange colour.

The yellow LEDs have less phosphor coating that allows more blue light through, as well as more green than red phosphor - together making 5000K-6500K (blue or cool) white light.

The orange LEDs have more phosphor coating and more red than green to convert more of the blues to reds, making 2700-4000K (red or warm to neutral) white light.

{TEXT}


Why am I telling you all this? Just bear with me . . .

The amount and type of phosphor determines efficiency as well as colour temperature (kelvin) and colour rendering (CRI) - all of which have a bearing on plant growth

As most of us know, THC and other cannibinoids are a bit like sunscreen for plants - they are produced in response to UV (not just genetics), and break down under UV, thus protecting the plant - and most importantly, the seed casings. Which is why buds have the most THC. That's the simple explanation.

Now individual LEDs can be produced in colours other than white - depending on the frequency, they can emit almost any base colour.

UV LEDs do exist (both UVB and UVA). They emit UV light and have little or no phosphor coating on them. But UV light is destructive, so UV LEDs - in addition to being very expensive to produce - do not last long.

One of the cheapest forms of UV light at the moment is fluorescent, or compact fluorescent. Mercury vapor lights are also high in UV, but not very efficient. In fact, CFL/fuoro is a type of mercury vapor lamp that produces UV as its base colour, which is then converted to white light using phosphors - which is why the bulbs are a white to yellow-white colour, due to the phosphor coating on the inside.

A few LED companies have developed a white LED based on a UV (or near UV) base light. This light is emitted at about 400nm - which is at the end of the UVA spectrum and start of the visible light spectrum. These LEDs use Red, Green and Blue phosphors to make white light, but they also emit violet light.

These are the LEDs that are used in the new boards. They have most of the efficiency and longevity of traditional blue-white phosphor LEDs, but produce a good amount of light in the UVA and near UVA spectra that is not produced by blue-white phosphor LEDs.

So this is all a long way of explaining why we are using a violet-white phosphor LED and not a dedicated UV LED. Some LED panel produces do use dedicated UVA lights on their boards (usually around 385nm), but they require a separate driver (added cost), are not as efficient, and have a shorter life expectancy, diminishing the lifespan of the entire boards. They also do not add other colours (spectra) to the board, so have no real photosynthetic value.

Ideally, if you are serious about adding UVA/B light to your grow - and there is also the matter of adding too much, which can damage your plants - you would use a UV reptile bulb, or fluoros or CFLs or MH/CMH light.

But even a little bit of UV appears to be beneficial to plants grown under LED, and so that is why this is perhaps the first near UV/UVA white phosphor LED grow panel produced, as we don't know of anything similar.

Re: More SPAM from Prawn (Psst - buy my LEDs)

PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:44 am
by Prawn Connery
bentech wrote:what would you say is the ideal canopy dimension for those panels?


assume less heat is allowing you to keep them closer to the plants than HID allows are you seeing even better results the simple watts to lumen increase over bulbs?

These are designed to be a direct 600W HPS replacement, so two LED boards side-by-side measure 415mm x 410mm (16"x16" in the old money) or 450mm x 440mm (about 18"x18") with matching heatsinks.

The LEDs are spaced quite far apart - further than other boards - at about 13mm (1/2") centre to centre. This provides a wider, more even spread of light, whilst reducing heat between LEDs for better dissipation and thermal management.

The boards need to be tested, but they're built to cover a 3'x3' with a very even canopy - much more even than HIDs, and better than other LED panels and strips.

But they will also be flexible. As they have a wide power range - you will be able to power (dim) them anywhere from 50-225W - simply hanging them higher with more power or lower with less power will realise efficiencies at different canopy footprints.

Two LED panels side-by-side will ideally cover 3'x3', but will also cover 4'x4' at higher wattages (400-450W). However, four panels would be better for a 4'x4' - 5'x5', providing up to 800-900W over 16-25sqft, which is about 35-50W/sqft.

Two panels end-to-end will cover a 4'x2' nicely (40-50W/sqft), while one panel would be ideal in a 2.5'x2' tent (40W/sqft).

We've found that 40-50W/sqft is a good indicator for current LEDs. Some run lower than that (35W), but you never need more than 50W, unless your LEDs are old and inefficient.

Re: More SPAM from Prawn (Psst - buy my LEDs)

PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:56 am
by Prawn Connery
LEDs convert more energy to light and less energy to heat compared to HIDs.

LEDs can be placed closer to the canopy, maximising their efficiency.

LEDs have a fuller spectrum of light than most HIDs (CMH being the best HID), providing more efficient photosynthesis.

LEDs focus all their light down, splaying out at about 120 degrees - all HIDs, such as HPS and MH, lose light and trap heat from reflectors, unless you hang them vertically. For this reason, a horizontal LED grow is much more efficient than a horizontal HPS grow. We're even seeing better efficiencies than vertical HID grows.

LEDs don't need to be replaced regularly like HID bulbs.

LEDs don't lose 10% light output like HPS does after a couple of grows.

LEDs can power on and off instantly, with no ignition and warm-up time like HIDs. Power interruptions do not affect LEDs or their lifespan, nor create a fire hazard.

LEDs are less likely to burn plants. The panels we've designed are also silent and need only passive air cooling.

These are the main advantages over traditional HPS grows.

Jeez, I'm good at this spam stuff, aren't I? :toker1:

Re: More SPAM from Prawn (Psst - buy my LEDs)

PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:19 am
by Lrus007
just a little side note on the fluorescent bulbs.
the 4' long tubes and other tubes that are not bent put off
less UV. because they can coat those type of bulbs very well.
now when you put bends on the tube like the curly fry bulbs
as i call them. the coating does not coat 100% of the bends
in the tube. so a few of those in a grow will add some UV in.
just thought i would toss that in there.
Lrus007

Re: More SPAM from Prawn (Psst - buy my LEDs)

PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:38 am
by Prawn Connery
Yeah, that's right - that's why there have been concerns over the amount of UVB given off by twisty CFLs vs tubes and other lighting. In fact, LED companies tout the lack if UV as being an advantage for their indoor product over fluoros.