Arabian Democracy?

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Little Kate Chaos
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Post by Little Kate Chaos »

ben ttech wrote:i wasnt making any distinction between catholics and prodestants,
when it camp to operating libraries of muslim girls and women

the western police military and irregular forces were encouraged to visit and check out loaner girls from, for the purposes of genocide
If you're saying what I think you are, then I'd not agree with that.

If 95% of people are "normo's" and 5% are not, then you will always find instances of 5%'ers anywhere.

When there are no rules, the rule is there is no rule. That attracts a lot of freaks. The Bosnian war was within a day's drive of 100's of million Western peeps, curtailed (is that the right word??) by modern society rules and values suddenly seeing their version of utopia. That was not even needed; throw in a whole nation of past scores unsettled from 2 generations past, but never forgotten and you have the horror of what that was.

Bosnia was European in the latter part of the 20th Century, one/two generations after Europe imploded in spectacular fashion. That's not to say it would not, or does not, happen anywhere in which the rule is that there is no rule. Of course, it does. Most continents. The US/Canada have done well so far in avoiding that. Or at least avoiding the extremist end of the spectrum of such things. At home at least.

I still say the first post on this thread, many pages past was a cute analogy.

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Post by bubbabush »

Why thanks Kate analogies and metaphors a specialty :winky: .

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Post by bubbabush »

Libyan rebel force more disciplined

http://www.thereporter.com/wirenews/ci_17758069" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
BY BEN HUBBARD AND RYAN LUCAS/ ASSOCIATED PRESS
Posted: 04/02/2011 02:39:45 AM PDT

AJDABIYA, Libya -- Something new has appeared at the Libyan front: a semblance of order among rebel forces.

Rebels without training -- sometimes even without weapons -- have rushed in and out of fighting in a free-for-all for weeks, repeatedly getting trounced by Moammar Gadhafi's more heavily armed forces. But on Friday only former military officers and the lightly trained volunteers serving under them were allowed on the front lines. Some were recent arrivals, hoping to rally against forces loyal to the Libyan leader who have pushed rebels back about 100 miles this week.

The better organized fighters, unlike some of their predecessors, can tell the difference between incoming and outgoing fire. They know how to avoid sticking to the roads, a weakness in the untrained forces that Gadhafi's troops have exploited. And they know how to take orders.

"The problem with the young untrained guys is they'll weaken us at the front, so we're trying to use them as a backup force," said Mohammed Majah, 33, a former sergeant.

"They don't even know how to use weapons. They have great enthusiasm, but that's not enough now," he said.

Majah said the only people at the front now are former soldiers, "experienced guys who have been in reserves, and about 20 percent are young revolutionaries who have been in training and are in organized units."

The greater organization was a sign that military forces that split from the regime to join the rebellion were finally taking

a greater role in the fight after weeks trying to organize. Fighters cheered Friday as one of their top commanders -- former Interior Minister Abdel-Fattah Younis -- drove by in a convoy toward the front.

It was too early to say if the improvements will tip the fight in the rebels' favor. They have been struggling to exploit the opportunity opened by international airstrikes hammering Gadhafi's forces since March 19.

In a sign the strikes may be eroding Gadhafi's resilience, his government is trying to hold talks with the U.S., Britain and France in hopes of ending the air campaign, said Abdul-Ati al-Obeidi, a former Libyan prime minister who has served as a Gadhafi envoy during the crisis. "We are trying to find a mutual solution," he told Britain's Channel 4 News on Friday.

British officials met with Mohammed Ismail, a Libyan government aide who happened to be in London visiting relatives, and told him Gadhafi must quit, two people familiar with the issue said Friday. The two demanded anonymity to discuss details.

The opposition said Friday in Benghazi, its de facto capital, that it will agree to a cease-fire if Gadhafi pulls his military forces out of cities and allows peaceful protests against his regime.

The rebel condition is that "the Gadhafi brigades and forces withdraw from inside and outside Libyan cities to give freedom to the Libyan people to choose," said Mustafa Abdul-Jalil, head of the opposition's interim governing council. "The world will see that they will choose freedom."

He spoke at a press conference with U.N. envoy Abdelilah Al-Khatib. Al-Khatib met Libyan officials in Tripoli on Thursday before holding talks with rebels in hopes of reaching a political solution.

The U.N. resolution that authorized international airstrikes against Libya called for Gadhafi and the rebels to end hostilities. Gadhafi announced a cease-fire immediately but has shown no sign of heeding it.

His forces continue to attack rebels in the east, which is largely controlled by the opposition, and have besieged the only major rebel-held city in the west, Misrata.

Misrata has been shelled by tanks and artillery for days, said a doctor in a city hospital who spoke on condition of anonymity out of fear of reprisals. Many people have been killed, including eight since Thursday, he said. He said Gadhafi brigades control the port and a main street, but rebels control the heart of the city.

At the main front, which has moved back and forth in a fringe between the rebel-held east and Gadhafi-ruled west, the rebels' losses this week underlined the inferiority of their equipment, training and organization, compared to the regime's.

There were signs of at least some rebel improvement in all three areas Friday.

The rebels had mortars, weapons they previously seemed to lack, and on Thursday night they drove in a convoy with at least eight rocket launchers -- more artillery than usual. The rebels also appeared to have more communication equipment such as radios and satellite phones. A newly installed diesel generator, allowing pumps at a gas station east of the main fighting, was another improvement.

They also appeared to get some international air support. Rebels east of Ajdabiya chanted "Allah akbar," or "God is great," as two planes flew overhead, and later eight to 10 heavy blasts -- more powerful than regular shelling -- were heard in the west, where Gadhafi's forces were.

Rebels had pleaded in vain for international airstrikes much of the week. U.S. Joint Chiefs Chairman Adm. Mike Mullen said Thursday that most combat missions had been grounded by bad weather.

It was unclear where the front line was on Friday. A day earlier, the opposition moved into Brega, about 50 miles (80 kilometers) east of Ajdabiya, but were again pushed out by Gadhafi's forces.

Ahmed al-Shiri, a 47-year-old former high-ranking officer from Benghazi, said Gadhafi forces were in Bishr, about 25 miles (40 kilometers) west of Brega.

NATO said it conducted a total of 178 flights, including 74 "strike sorties," on Thursday, when it formally took control of what had been a U.S.-led military campaign against Gadhafi. The Obama administration, already fighting wars in two Muslim nations, had been eager to give up that responsibility.

The U.S. Defense Department announced it will end command missions in Libya on Saturday, leaving the work for other NATO members. The decision drew incredulous reactions from some in Congress.

The better organized rebel force took a long time to deploy mainly because it was being drawn up from scratch.

"We were setting up and training and establishing units all over Libya," said Hamid Muftah, 41, a former member of air force now with the rebels. The volunteers got about 25 days of training and have been organized into six- or seven-member groups each led by a defector from the regular military.

"They're still not that good, but they'll get experience," Muftah said.

"We can't just do what we want now," said Nasser Zwei, a 40-year-old oil engineer behind the wheel of an oil-company pickup truck, now equipped with an anti-aircraft gun. "We follow directions. It will make a difference."

Now untrained fighters are turned away at checkpoints. They stay to the rear to hold the line temporarily in case Gadhafi's forces attempt to flank the trained rebels, said Ali Bin-Amr, a 26-year-old fighter.

Al-Shiri, the former high ranking officer, said the improvements were set up over the past weeks. He blamed "lack of organization" for the rebels' failure to reach Sirte, the Gadhafi stronghold they were marching on last week when they were turned back by an overwhelming force of artillery and rocket fire.

Now "we get orders from the military council in Benghazi. They're in control. The army is in control," he said. The undisciplined fighters "are not leading the way anymore."

The international effort to stop Gadhafi from attacking his opponents is deeply divided on whether to arm the rebels, but they may soon get their own money to buy weapons. The opposition's National Transitional Council has reached agreement with Qatar on a plan to sell rebel-held oil to buy weapons and other supplies, according to Ali Tarhouni, who handles finances for the council.

Gadhafi's greatest losses this week were not military but political. His foreign minister and another member of his inner circle abandoned him Wednesday and Thursday, setting off speculation about other officials who may be next. The defections could sway people who have stuck with Gadhafi despite the uprising that began Feb. 15 and the international airstrikes aimed at keeping the autocrat from attacking his own people.

Libyan state TV aired a phone interview with intelligence chief Bouzeid Dorda to knock down rumors that he also left Gadhafi.

"I am in Libya and will remain here steadfast in the same camp of the revolution despite everything," Dorda said.

------

Hubbard reported from Benghazi. Hadeel Al-Shalchi in Tripoli, Maggie Michael in Cairo and David Stringer in London contributed to this report.
Last edited by bubbabush on Sat Apr 02, 2011 9:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by ben ttech »

real black people are calling bullshit on this
"disaster is the mother of necessity" rSin

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Post by Little Kate Chaos »

I wonder why Bubba??

Imagine if, by proxy, you sent German boys in under a NATO umbrella. Their grandads went up and down that road and you know those guys are keen and discipline on contact should be a German phrase. German boots on the ground even now are a touchy subject, or is that just an Israeli thing??

Frohe Weihnachten for them. :mrgreen:

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Related

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Post by bubbabush »

Totally related:
Hey you, the unfair tyrants...
You the lovers of the darkness...
You the enemies of life...
You've made fun of innocent people's wounds; and your palm covered with their blood
You kept walking while you were deforming the charm of existence and growing seeds of sadness in their land
Wait, don't let the spring, the clearness of the sky and the shine of the morning light fool you...
Because the darkness, the thunder rumble and the blowing of the wind are coming toward you from the horizon
Beware because there is a fire underneath the ash
Who grows thorns will reap wounds
You've taken off heads of people and the flowers of hope; and watered the cure of the sand with blood and tears until it was drunk
The blood's river will sweep you away and you will be burned by the fiery storm
English translation of the poem "Ela Toghat Al Alaam" (To the tyrants of the world)


The original Arabic:

ألا أيها الظالم المستبد
حبيب الظلام عدو الحياه
سخرت بأنات شعب ضعيف
و كفك مخضوبة من دماه
و سرت تشوه سحر الوجود
و تبذر شوك الاسى في رباه
رويدك لا يخدعنك الربيع
و صحو الفضاء و ضوء الصباح
ففي الافق الرحب هول الظلام و قصف الرعود و عصف الرياح
حذار فتحت الرماد اللهيب
و من يبذر الشوك يجن الجراح
تأمل هنالك انى حصدت رؤوس الورى و زهور الأمل
و رويت بالدم قلب التراب اشربته الدمع حتى ثمل
سيجرفك سيل الدماء
و يأكلك العاصف المشتعل
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Post by ben ttech »

hes on quadaffis side tonight
"disaster is the mother of necessity" rSin

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Post by bubbabush »

I doubt it.

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Funny How The World Turns!

Post by WhiteHotAfterburner »

WhiteHotAfterburner wrote:
Fri Feb 11, 2011 12:24 am
Little Kate Chaos wrote:Haha, you can't leave it, can you?? The Soviet thingy. The article talks of the way the Soviet Union once worked politically maybe returning or that being wanted in Russia. I bet you scurried the google to find something...anything. Trust me WHAB; the Soviet Union ceased to exist in 1991. If it's 'ways' return, it will not be the Soviet Union. It would take Russia to annex the old Soviet South Caucasus, the Baltic states and the Ukraine for starters. That's World War 3 time.

This is fluff anyway, I only picked on your continued use of a word to describe a people and nation that disappeared years ago to tease. And knowing you do like to drill on the odd wrong/right word here and there....

You'd no more call a Croat, Bosnian or Slovenian a Yugoslavian from Yugoslavia because Serbia might want a Greater Serbia (a la Yugoslavia as it was) again, would you?? Or call Ireland part of the UK. People will get offended. :tsktsk:

Plus it's good to learn to correct our mistakes. This is not opinion to be argued. It is fact.

Right, no more mention on the subject ever again from me!! You can carry on calling it the Soviet Union and call Russians Soviets. Please do. It's rather quaint. My gran might call them that. :mrgreen:

----------------------------------------------------

As you say, I do not think the Muslim Brotherhood being hunted down and exterminated is going to happen. If it does, then that is not allowing the democratic process to run it's course. Egypt under Islamic law need not be so different to Saudi under Islamic law, which is a friend of the West. Surely it is wrong to use force by proxy to hunt down political opponents because you don't like their policies.

Everybody deserves self-determination, if the Muslim Brotherhood won a landslide or big majority election, though it might catch in the throat, you would have to accept that, no?? I had to begrudgingly accept that clown you had, that to this day drags my man off to wars. :mrgreen:
I never meant in land-mass, Kate. I meant the mentality of it. It has already returned. Orchestrated beatings, orchestrated killings, people fleeing the state in fear of their life....etc...etc. Just like the old days.

I do find it remarkable you don't accept a word out of any of their own mouths. Ikwhan, Soviets, Jihadi's....etc....etc.

I'm also done with the subject, now.

Saudi Arabia is NOT our friend by any stretch of anyone's imagination (excluding you, it seems). They are a business partner nearly exclusively and one I'd shed tomorrow if I could and suffer the short term consequences readily.

Some people only understand death, Kate. Some people strain at the yoke to receive it.

I would not accept Ikwhan's ascension for a second. Not for a nanosecond. They would receive the Iran treatment immediately, which except for nation's violating the embargoes would be dead already (as a government). Which also brings up the point that TOTUS left the Good Iranian's to swing in the breeze--literally-when they were striving to be free the yoke of their enslavement. Monumental blunder.

You ought to be thanking Bush. What he did. What we did. It was, and is, the right thing to do/to have done. Putting it off for so long was the mistake. They want your thought process machine, Kate. That is not idle wordplay...ask Danny Pearl....oh...:oops:

:wave: Kate,
WHAB
Trust me WHAB; the Soviet Union ceased to exist in 1991.
Funny how the world turns.

Soviet Union is dead! :roflmao:

I do hope, wherever you're at, that you and yours are well and fine, Kate! :tup:

:wave: Kate!,
WHAB

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