Episode II : Enter The Hellfire

[mistergrafik]

Thanks for the comments Deran. I agree it's a fairly simple and effective structure here.
I wanted to go through the plants and find the nice females.

Would love to hear about how you go about selecting / pairing

[deran]

i have just one selection criteria - potency

smoking the first joint of the day from the to be tested buds, those determine the selction

im doing this with males too, i do a occasional smoke break of a week or two, then i smoke the small leaflets (mostly yuck - better in a vapo) and wait for the efx to show up, again the most potent male gets the sex

i do cut off a branch or two from the male, put it into a glass of water and put it on the window sill, so it can mature, later i put some parchment paper below the glas to collect pollen

then, dusting some of the upper colas from the chosen females


pretty simple, oldschool, but imho more effctive than those ppl sending their buds to labs to test for thc amount, and its not the thc amount that determines potency, not at all, otherwise we would have beeter strain and not thos 1 dimensional highs that we expirience

im a lover of those fear inducing racy sativa highs - i know most arent

lol

[mistergrafik]

Insomnia 101: Interesting..

Gives me something to ponder and re-structure my process a bit.

I do smoke them - maybe the other notes get in the way of my selection on potency.
thoughts of what-ifs.

Agreed on the high THC / one dimensional sessions that have been all the craze for the last decade probably two..
Never thought about how much of a role the test results have played in so many peoples 'breeding programs'.
Terpenes in synergy will blow your hair back way farther than all THC. It's well rounded imo.

The windowsill thing if I'm experimenting or if I'm doing some clones or f2/3/4 tests. But for F1 on some cases now I will do full plants so I can have a wide breadth to select from and more to share in the instance some magic happens. Sometimes there is only one shot F1 so I have come to do them rather big. Speaking of F1, I also consider poly hybrids crossed with each other F1 even though I saw your guys discussion on it..

I think any two individual plants of different seed crossed onto each other result in F1. That's just my belief could be totally wrong.

So my second question was about pairing.

Don't cross things just because. I like to find some relation - for example the EPCK; is related to Chitrali #1 (purple) which was used to create a few stellar OG lines. Hells Angel / Tru Gangster Kush lines.

Tahoe Cuts (the original) x Pine Tar Kush x Chitrali #1 (purple) = Snow OG

So this brought me to pair/align the EPCK. The Chitrali #1.

Does ancestral pairing matter? Or is it a fools game and we should just bow out to the chuck sessions?
Every Carlos and his dozen cousins is chucking something these days...

Ah the Sativa. I'm growing some Michoacán crossing right now because my personal smoke stash is mostly fear inducing Sativa of Mexican Decent.
I love that shit. I've had the Oaxacan smoke for some time - also wonderful. Not as fear inducing a bit more trippy and giggly. Can get intense...
Like the Tequila of Cannabis.

Just need to get some land to really unleash and cross them bitches wild style.

Thanks for the reply bro

[mistergrafik]

@Deran - You've unlocked a hidden character in the Hellfire

(Super Skunk x 89NL) x 89NL

[deran]

very nice reply my friend, i do see we have some similarities ... those sativas ... i mean, nothing can teach you lesson better than your own lesson, and those sativas learned me a lot about myself

you know im in europe, and every year there are those sat images that show pollen (or better said sand .. which is way more heavy than pollen) flying across the mediterian sea and dusting cars in europe

that killed my understanding of landraces and breeding, as cannabis is a global sex machine, literally overcoming 1000s of kilometers

also mendels theorys dont apply to cannabis, let me put it into programmers words: mendel was disassembling plants, and by that he made conclusions
but us, we are assembling plants, going the opposite way than him, and by that having some success: all those fantastic bag seed varieties of a magnitude of ancestors wouldnt deliver if mendels rules would apply

case closed for me

and as you said, cross em bitches ... just think of us humans, im sure you know somebody that has a brother or sister and this person is just the opposite of your friend.. thats genes, you will never know until you try it

btw i have a buddy, he crossed a bull terrier to a doberman .... the bull was white, the doberman black, and the resulting puppy brown lol , but had all the best character traces of both dogs, so calm so restful but also so determined to love his owner, funny dog :D

my own experiments were mostly with african sativas - looking for the thcv - which gives a psychedelic nature of the high, i worked until F4 to see the outcome swazi and lesotho and durban .. tho i havent had the luck to find some ethopian black, thats still on my list, otherwise im on the haze side

what i want, a strain without tolerance build up (had a belladonna for more than 5 years, then she started flowering, couldnt do anything against it .. bigger pots, more N, more light, she just wanted to flower) she was as potent after 5 years as she was on the first toke
a strain without ceiling , only sativas can do that

i mean, thats the reason we grow so many different things, bc of tollerance build up and low ceiling and fucking indoor... tell somebody who is not a grower what it means to simulate nature, thats a lot .. lights, air, water, nutes, sometimes animals ... and be perfect at that, i doubt a not grower would understand it

i grow some plants outside, and guess what, there is always a seed in there, and i dont know if its a herm, i mean i dont see any banana, fucking pollen is flying around from anywhere ouround, could be cbd hemp, could be from morocco ... from the himalays ...

sprout it and evaluate it, thats the only way

[deran]

btw i do remember the super skunk of 1992 ... dude ... that changed the game, but its not anymore what it used to be

in holland there were too many raids at the sensi seed bank and at nevills , mr nice seed bank, loosing all mothers and fathers, so they had to recreate em, and by that much got lost

[Butcher Bob]

Speaking of F1, I also consider poly hybrids crossed with each other F1 even though I saw your guys discussion on it..

I think any two individual plants of different seed crossed onto each other result in F1. That's just my belief could be totally wrong.


Does ancestral pairing matter? Or is it a fools game and we should just bow out to the chuck sessions?

True F1s have stablized and/or landrace parents...everything else is a bastardized poly-hybrid.


Pairing can be selected for different reasons...

- Selecting parents as different as possible, increases hybrid vigor in the progeny.

- Back crossing, or crossing two different lines of the same strain, can help replace unintentionally lost genetics.

- Crossing related hybrids, could help establish desired traits.

It just depends on what you are trying to accomplish.
A lot of times we just want to roll the dice and see what comes up.

[mistergrafik]

Information overload.
Thank you both it's going to take my slow brain a while to read and respond.

I really appreciate it. This is inspiring. A quick question before I really respond:

So there are two different sides to the coin but I want to ask about the one you mentioned Bob. Since I consider many thngs F1 even though might not be proper. (maybe there should be a new term for them B1 B2)

F1 (true F1) come from stabilized parents. Can you help me understand what classifies a stable parent?
I also notice (beside growing under the sun) some crosses will create massive seed some will create small ones.

[deran]

seed size depends on the bud pollination, dusting the upper top cola will give the best and biggest seeds, sadly many ppl dust the lower branches, and by that they are slecting for small seed size, small yield , but great roots

think of carrots, its not about the part thats visible, its about the root thats not visible, same principle with weed

regarding f1 and stability, let me respond what shanti said "i do bottlenecks with my genetics, but i do bottleneck quality"

[mistergrafik]

very nice reply my friend, i do see we have some similarities ... those sativas ... i mean, nothing can teach you lesson better than your own lesson, and those sativas learned me a lot about myself

you know im in europe, and every year there are those sat images that show pollen (or better said sand .. which is way more heavy than pollen) flying across the mediterian sea and dusting cars in europe

that killed my understanding of landraces and breeding, as cannabis is a global sex machine, literally overcoming 1000s of kilometers

also mendels theorys dont apply to cannabis, let me put it into programmers words: mendel was disassembling plants, and by that he made conclusions
but us, we are assembling plants, going the opposite way than him, and by that having some success: all those fantastic bag seed varieties of a magnitude of ancestors wouldnt deliver if mendels rules would apply

case closed for me

and as you said, cross em bitches ... just think of us humans, im sure you know somebody that has a brother or sister and this person is just the opposite of your friend.. thats genes, you will never know until you try it

btw i have a buddy, he crossed a bull terrier to a doberman .... the bull was white, the doberman black, and the resulting puppy brown lol , but had all the best character traces of both dogs, so calm so restful but also so determined to love his owner, funny dog :D

my own experiments were mostly with african sativas - looking for the thcv - which gives a psychedelic nature of the high, i worked until F4 to see the outcome swazi and lesotho and durban .. tho i havent had the luck to find some ethopian black, thats still on my list, otherwise im on the haze side

what i want, a strain without tolerance build up (had a belladonna for more than 5 years, then she started flowering, couldnt do anything against it .. bigger pots, more N, more light, she just wanted to flower) she was as potent after 5 years as she was on the first toke
a strain without ceiling , only sativas can do that

i mean, thats the reason we grow so many different things, bc of tollerance build up and low ceiling and fucking indoor... tell somebody who is not a grower what it means to simulate nature, thats a lot .. lights, air, water, nutes, sometimes animals ... and be perfect at that, i doubt a not grower would understand it

i grow some plants outside, and guess what, there is always a seed in there, and i dont know if its a herm, i mean i dont see any banana, fucking pollen is flying around from anywhere ouround, could be cbd hemp, could be from morocco ... from the himalays ...

sprout it and evaluate it, thats the only way

Firstly, It is true a Sativa plant will teach you more than you are willing to learn. Also I like how you put it you learn a lot about yourself in the interim. I have never seen those specific pictures but I have seen pollen clouds before. I never thought how far they could really travel. A global sex machine.

Secondly, Interesting you mention Mendel. I actually read a ton on him and his work. It's why I grow peas. My favorite ones are supposed from King Tut's tomb. Blue pink and yellow, incredible things. Also for a while I was experimenting trying to creat a graft hybrid. It has happened before and made Darwin very upset. But in regards to Mendel I think he was brilliant and some things do relate. But it's even more interesting that perspective you say of how we are actually putting things together. It is true. Can you elaborate the part of bag seed and why his principles wouldn't apply?

I have sprayed plants before to try and find their parents. An ancestral hunt if you will. At the time it was only a thought I hadn't any proof if it worked that way or not..

Lastly, You hit the nail on the head. We grow for potency. And this doesn't mean THC value alone. A search for that strain that keeps on. Like the first taste over and over and over again.

Not least, I have never grown African Sativa. I am looking for THCv also but my search is in P Red this year.
Now that I think of the mother land.. I do have some Purple Nigerian. They were given to me openly knowing of the stability issues.
I must resist the urge to plant them.

And about the SS. Man. I am very hopeful for this hidden cross here. Obviously it is NL dominate but there is SS in it. The breeder is a lady known as Mel she is a wonderful older lady. I tried to reach her on twitter again but seems she's gone away. Coldflame gave these to me. She called the cross Old Lady actually. And then Brought it back to her 89NL studd and named that 'The North'. Was given to me to increase so there will be plenty to look.

There is only a splash of SS in it. And I can only pray it's mega.

I want to type much more but shit I'm having a hard time quoting messages without making it super confusing

Thanks again Deran wheels are turning right now as I look at what plants to kill. Wish I could buy you guys a coffee or something




Edit** I wanted to show you about the graft hybrid

It was a budding graft. I tried many times many ways many different varieties but could not find a match.
It's my belief there should be an underlying relation... I will attempt again when I am back on my feet.

It made Darwin very mad when it produced....