Just another white widow thread
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Just another white widow thread
Hey Irwin, is that the WW you had in the other thread? It's looking good, man. Have you repotted it yet?
Luc's WW was bred from Ingemar originals. I'm also pretty certain that Nebula is a WW cross from that same stock.
deran, what's your take on Ingemar vs Shanti?
Luc's WW was bred from Ingemar originals. I'm also pretty certain that Nebula is a WW cross from that same stock.
deran, what's your take on Ingemar vs Shanti?
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Just another white widow thread
hey mate
id like respond with my own opinion, which is impossible bc i havent had shantis genetics below the bulb, but as you all might know, im also a member over at mrnice forums, and ive become slightly skeptical reading black widow threads over there, speaking of hermies, low yields and even sometimes bad potency ... while all other variables arent fixed, sativa high, indica high, mixed high, good yield, low yield, etc etc ...
compared to those widdows i had and i have "managed" at other places shantis are (only by looks) darker with more chlorophyll, less stretchy with slighty shorter internode distances, but with the known limby fragile structure and the buds arent anymore pyramid like sativa towers, similiar like c99, they have become more cylindrical without the top tip, furthermore the crystalline appearance has changed, its still the same amount, but seemed to disappear from the large fan leafs ... bc that was the special thing about her, what nobody has seen before the widdow in europe .. crystals on large fan leafs ... but hey, they are gone again .. lasted just for 20 years ... lol
wihtout a doubt there is more indica genes in shantis widows, but not having grown her i cant say more
nebula was fuckin sweet, one of the sweetest buds i had, like honey, like sugar, like ambrosia, like agave honey ... delicious ... havent had that much luck with potency, but bred the nebula males to to an ice girl from nirvana, and this cross called ifog, was better than both parents in every aspect, the high itself was on par with sensi star, this bam in your face - fuck im fucked and gonna die high/stoned, wihtout tollerance build up ... a good combo, and this combo wasnt even the top of the mountain, as the ice girl wasnt the famous ice pheno, which i had too, but no male at that time, and this ice pheno of ice is even double that powerful as the pheno i had to cross
i dont know which genes are responsible for its good performance, but it isin there, in ingemars work, tho i dont know how much time is needed .. thats another story
i cant make my mind up, for curiousity sakes id put this ranking up:
paradise: ww IBL
dutch passion: ww
shantis: bw
dutch passion will always be a winner, as its at least a bx1 , the stolen cut was bred with males from bought ww seed packs
depending how much work has beed done to make an IBL , different ppl will different definitions , at least a F4 , for me F8 an onwards, with good work, why not
and shanti , well its gonna be a surprise, bc when you read the rest of the forums, many question marks arise ones head, blinking WTF ??? in stereo ...
id like respond with my own opinion, which is impossible bc i havent had shantis genetics below the bulb, but as you all might know, im also a member over at mrnice forums, and ive become slightly skeptical reading black widow threads over there, speaking of hermies, low yields and even sometimes bad potency ... while all other variables arent fixed, sativa high, indica high, mixed high, good yield, low yield, etc etc ...
compared to those widdows i had and i have "managed" at other places shantis are (only by looks) darker with more chlorophyll, less stretchy with slighty shorter internode distances, but with the known limby fragile structure and the buds arent anymore pyramid like sativa towers, similiar like c99, they have become more cylindrical without the top tip, furthermore the crystalline appearance has changed, its still the same amount, but seemed to disappear from the large fan leafs ... bc that was the special thing about her, what nobody has seen before the widdow in europe .. crystals on large fan leafs ... but hey, they are gone again .. lasted just for 20 years ... lol
wihtout a doubt there is more indica genes in shantis widows, but not having grown her i cant say more
nebula was fuckin sweet, one of the sweetest buds i had, like honey, like sugar, like ambrosia, like agave honey ... delicious ... havent had that much luck with potency, but bred the nebula males to to an ice girl from nirvana, and this cross called ifog, was better than both parents in every aspect, the high itself was on par with sensi star, this bam in your face - fuck im fucked and gonna die high/stoned, wihtout tollerance build up ... a good combo, and this combo wasnt even the top of the mountain, as the ice girl wasnt the famous ice pheno, which i had too, but no male at that time, and this ice pheno of ice is even double that powerful as the pheno i had to cross
i dont know which genes are responsible for its good performance, but it isin there, in ingemars work, tho i dont know how much time is needed .. thats another story
i cant make my mind up, for curiousity sakes id put this ranking up:
paradise: ww IBL
dutch passion: ww
shantis: bw
dutch passion will always be a winner, as its at least a bx1 , the stolen cut was bred with males from bought ww seed packs
depending how much work has beed done to make an IBL , different ppl will different definitions , at least a F4 , for me F8 an onwards, with good work, why not
and shanti , well its gonna be a surprise, bc when you read the rest of the forums, many question marks arise ones head, blinking WTF ??? in stereo ...
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Just another white widow thread
Nebula was the first Dutch strain I ever grew. Indeed, the first seeds I ever bought online - from Gypsy. In fact, I emailed him what I was looking for and he suggested Nebula. Some people might be a bit surprised that I ordered from Gypsy over the years, but I never had an issue doing business with him. I didn't have a lot of luck with his free Skunk#1 seeds . . . but hell, they were free, so what did I expect?
It was also through Gypsy I learned about OG in 2001.
Now, it's hard for me to comment on something I grew once, more than 15 years ago (I do recall it was sweet, like you said, and a very pleasant mix of slightly more sativa than indica), but some years later Luc gifted me a cross called "Nebulaze", which was a female Nebula/male SSH pairing. It was a bit variable, but I remember one pheno - which I continued to grow out for a while - was very SSH dominant with an incredible lemon-haze/metallic taste and an awesome head high. It took 12 weeks to finish, but was a huge producer. I also grew out Luc's "Super Sensi Star", which was the same SSH father crossed to a Sensi Star mother. One of these phenos also took up regular rotation in my grow room until I learned (after some time) that it was pollinating my other plants. Never found any male sacks on it, but as soon as I took it out of rotation, the seeding stopped (it was only mild seeding, so must have been one or two random male flowers). Luc did warn me about the possibility of hermaphrodism in both crosses from the SSH side, but the Nebulaze never hermed.
The Super Sensi Star was up with the most potent indoor strains I've grown and had a sweet, hazy lemon-berry (more like strawberry) flavour to it with a good combination of towering head high and relaxing body stone. The buds were haze-like, with long, sticky branches and a 10-11 week flowering time. The Nebulaze was more like little golf-ball buds stacked on top of each other to form foxtail-shaped branches.
Probably my favourite strain that I grew for years, and which everybody seemed to love (including myself!), was another Luc test-batch called "Sweet Haze" which I think was a Neville's Haze cross with an indica. Very short flowering for a mainly haze - 10-11 weeks - with a real catpiss stank to it. I nick-named it "Stinky Catpiss Haze", and the name stuck. It was then-on referred to as simply "Stinky Catpiss". It was day-time only smoke - unless you wanted to party all night - with an electric high that was all in the head and never a dull or lazy moment. One day, I went on a pub crawl with some of my mates and ate a couple of hash-cookies for breakfast on an empty stomach, then punched a few bucket bongs of Stinky Catpiss, then went outside higher than a fucking kite. I mean, so fucking high I don't know how I managed to walk down the street. Then the cookies kicked in.
At the first pub, I drank coke and sat in a corner with all my mates standing around laughing at the silly grin I had on my face - I didn't talk much, as you can imagine. At the second pub, a friend offered me a beer. I said "No, I shouldn't drink anything until I start to come down". He said "Go on, no-one else will drink it". So I drank it. At the third pub, one of my mates had to walk me outside and put me a cab home. I was fucked. I got home and my wife said "What happened?". I said "Alcohol" and went and lay down for four hours. The next day, the friend who had put me in a cab said he'd never seen me so white, and that I'd fainted in the street before getting in the cab. That's the worst I've ever been, but I still maintain if I hadn't drunk anything, I would have been OK after a couple of hours. I guess that kind of defeats the purpose of going on a pub crawl, though . . .
And that's pretty much the extent of my experience with Nev/Shanti strains, as they've all come to me by way of Luc crosses - none of which were ever commercially available. I do have some MNS Mango Haze in the fridge (for when I start growing again), and did grow out some CBD Skunk-Haze once, but wasn't that impressed. My wife is a med user, and the CBD strain didn't really help her as much as some of the blue strains I've grown (DJ Short's F13 being one of her favourite - though the F13 is a bit of a disaster IMO, apart from the high, which is not very strong or long-lasting).
It was also through Gypsy I learned about OG in 2001.
Now, it's hard for me to comment on something I grew once, more than 15 years ago (I do recall it was sweet, like you said, and a very pleasant mix of slightly more sativa than indica), but some years later Luc gifted me a cross called "Nebulaze", which was a female Nebula/male SSH pairing. It was a bit variable, but I remember one pheno - which I continued to grow out for a while - was very SSH dominant with an incredible lemon-haze/metallic taste and an awesome head high. It took 12 weeks to finish, but was a huge producer. I also grew out Luc's "Super Sensi Star", which was the same SSH father crossed to a Sensi Star mother. One of these phenos also took up regular rotation in my grow room until I learned (after some time) that it was pollinating my other plants. Never found any male sacks on it, but as soon as I took it out of rotation, the seeding stopped (it was only mild seeding, so must have been one or two random male flowers). Luc did warn me about the possibility of hermaphrodism in both crosses from the SSH side, but the Nebulaze never hermed.
The Super Sensi Star was up with the most potent indoor strains I've grown and had a sweet, hazy lemon-berry (more like strawberry) flavour to it with a good combination of towering head high and relaxing body stone. The buds were haze-like, with long, sticky branches and a 10-11 week flowering time. The Nebulaze was more like little golf-ball buds stacked on top of each other to form foxtail-shaped branches.
Probably my favourite strain that I grew for years, and which everybody seemed to love (including myself!), was another Luc test-batch called "Sweet Haze" which I think was a Neville's Haze cross with an indica. Very short flowering for a mainly haze - 10-11 weeks - with a real catpiss stank to it. I nick-named it "Stinky Catpiss Haze", and the name stuck. It was then-on referred to as simply "Stinky Catpiss". It was day-time only smoke - unless you wanted to party all night - with an electric high that was all in the head and never a dull or lazy moment. One day, I went on a pub crawl with some of my mates and ate a couple of hash-cookies for breakfast on an empty stomach, then punched a few bucket bongs of Stinky Catpiss, then went outside higher than a fucking kite. I mean, so fucking high I don't know how I managed to walk down the street. Then the cookies kicked in.
At the first pub, I drank coke and sat in a corner with all my mates standing around laughing at the silly grin I had on my face - I didn't talk much, as you can imagine. At the second pub, a friend offered me a beer. I said "No, I shouldn't drink anything until I start to come down". He said "Go on, no-one else will drink it". So I drank it. At the third pub, one of my mates had to walk me outside and put me a cab home. I was fucked. I got home and my wife said "What happened?". I said "Alcohol" and went and lay down for four hours. The next day, the friend who had put me in a cab said he'd never seen me so white, and that I'd fainted in the street before getting in the cab. That's the worst I've ever been, but I still maintain if I hadn't drunk anything, I would have been OK after a couple of hours. I guess that kind of defeats the purpose of going on a pub crawl, though . . .
And that's pretty much the extent of my experience with Nev/Shanti strains, as they've all come to me by way of Luc crosses - none of which were ever commercially available. I do have some MNS Mango Haze in the fridge (for when I start growing again), and did grow out some CBD Skunk-Haze once, but wasn't that impressed. My wife is a med user, and the CBD strain didn't really help her as much as some of the blue strains I've grown (DJ Short's F13 being one of her favourite - though the F13 is a bit of a disaster IMO, apart from the high, which is not very strong or long-lasting).
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Just another white widow thread
shantis mango haze = lucs delahaze
nebula x haze, still available in austria at flowery fields shop, as well as the famous lemon metal sensi star pheno yay
nebula x haze, still available in austria at flowery fields shop, as well as the famous lemon metal sensi star pheno yay
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Yeah, I understand it's Lemon Skunk x Mango Haze. When you look at photos of it, it sure looks like an SSH type plant.
I'm pretty sure my Stinky Catpiss haze is closely related to what is now commercially available as Atomical Haze. The photos on Luc's website are almost identical to what mine looked like, and I seem to recall Luc telling me they had at least one of the same parents (Neville's Haze). The Stinky Catpiss is not sweet at all (except for an underlying rotten fruit stench with a touch of aniseed) - it is almost pure, sour-stinky haze. It was the only pheno in a 10-pack of femmed test seeds that wasn't sweet like the others (the test pack was labelled "Sweet Haze").
This one was was grown in an early incarnation of my vertical set-up and was only half a pound. Later, I would harvest up to a pound (15oz, actually - average 12oz) per plant in those same pots.
I'm pretty sure my Stinky Catpiss haze is closely related to what is now commercially available as Atomical Haze. The photos on Luc's website are almost identical to what mine looked like, and I seem to recall Luc telling me they had at least one of the same parents (Neville's Haze). The Stinky Catpiss is not sweet at all (except for an underlying rotten fruit stench with a touch of aniseed) - it is almost pure, sour-stinky haze. It was the only pheno in a 10-pack of femmed test seeds that wasn't sweet like the others (the test pack was labelled "Sweet Haze").
This one was was grown in an early incarnation of my vertical set-up and was only half a pound. Later, I would harvest up to a pound (15oz, actually - average 12oz) per plant in those same pots.
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If memory serves me correct (that pic is about 10 years old now - I don't keep grow pix and just rely on those I've put online over the years), that would have been vegged for maybe 6 weeks after cloning, but would have been seriously pruned before going into flower.
My usual rotation was about 8-10 weeks, which meant I would prune all my vegged plants for clones, put them into flower, strike the clones (1-2 weeks), and then veg the clones for 6 weeks or so under a 250w MH until the flowering plants were ready for harvest and start all over again. Most of my sativas would veg like bastards, so were savagely cut before going into flower to not only branch them for better yield, but prevent them outgrowing my cabinet. The indicas I would let grow tall and prune from the sides, so they would not be too fat for my vertical set-up.
I never kept mother plants, and would clone from generation to generation to keep my plant numbers down (a necessity in my part of the world), but I would also give out as many of my favourite clones as I could to ensure I didn't lose my genetics. Alas, I had to give up growing almost three years ago and lost all my favourite plants (although I believe one Sensi Star cut may still be doing the rounds somewhere). I've still got shit-loads of seeds, of course - some almost 15 years old (I don't know how viable they are, but they've always been refrigerated) - and I've collected some interesting genetics over the years, so if and when I ever start growing again, it will be fun to reach into my seed bank to see what I find.
Growing out seeds for clone mothers is quite an intensive exercise, but in some ways it's a bit like Christmas, waiting to see what you'll uncover next
My usual rotation was about 8-10 weeks, which meant I would prune all my vegged plants for clones, put them into flower, strike the clones (1-2 weeks), and then veg the clones for 6 weeks or so under a 250w MH until the flowering plants were ready for harvest and start all over again. Most of my sativas would veg like bastards, so were savagely cut before going into flower to not only branch them for better yield, but prevent them outgrowing my cabinet. The indicas I would let grow tall and prune from the sides, so they would not be too fat for my vertical set-up.
I never kept mother plants, and would clone from generation to generation to keep my plant numbers down (a necessity in my part of the world), but I would also give out as many of my favourite clones as I could to ensure I didn't lose my genetics. Alas, I had to give up growing almost three years ago and lost all my favourite plants (although I believe one Sensi Star cut may still be doing the rounds somewhere). I've still got shit-loads of seeds, of course - some almost 15 years old (I don't know how viable they are, but they've always been refrigerated) - and I've collected some interesting genetics over the years, so if and when I ever start growing again, it will be fun to reach into my seed bank to see what I find.
Growing out seeds for clone mothers is quite an intensive exercise, but in some ways it's a bit like Christmas, waiting to see what you'll uncover next
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I saw today that Grimm Brothers is bringing back Cinderella 99 I'm pretty excited about that
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I saw that, too, when I was browsing Hemp Depot the other day: http://hempdepot.ca/seeds/BrothersGrimm/index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
They're obviously not exactly the same as the originals, and the price - fuck me! - but hey, they might be worth growing. Though I suspect, after all these years, there are better strains for the money that will do the same thing. IMO, Bros Grimm are just trying to cash in - as I'm sure they will.
From what I recall, growing out various C99 and A11 F2s and crosses over the years, nothing much struck me about them apart from low odour, fast finishing times and clear - but short-lasting - highs. I always thought it was a little bit over-rated.
They're obviously not exactly the same as the originals, and the price - fuck me! - but hey, they might be worth growing. Though I suspect, after all these years, there are better strains for the money that will do the same thing. IMO, Bros Grimm are just trying to cash in - as I'm sure they will.
From what I recall, growing out various C99 and A11 F2s and crosses over the years, nothing much struck me about them apart from low odour, fast finishing times and clear - but short-lasting - highs. I always thought it was a little bit over-rated.
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I want to add to my previous post about veg times . . . a little trick I learned is that if you veg as long as you can and then trim your plants prior to putting them into flower - and this applies especially if you are short of space and/or head height - then you end up with a short plant with a lot of root mass that will simply explode once you hit the switch.
A lot of growers stunt their plants in veg because they don't have room to flower large trees. So they will put their clones/seedlings under fluoros, or in small pots or give them limited nutrient so they don't grow too big too fast before going into flower.
Now think about this: if you take two plants, veg one to the max, the other as above, you will end up with one huge plant and one small plant. However, if you trim the large plant, you will end up with two similar-sized plants but one of them will have a huge, established root mass. When you put both plants into flower, they will both use energy to grow, stretch and start to flower. However, the plant with the smaller root mass needs to put more energy into growing roots than the one that already has an established root system.
In my experience, once a plant has finished stretching in the first 2-3 weeks of flower, its rate of root growth slows as its flowering production increases. But it is still relying on those roots for nutrient uptake. A good root system gives the plant a head-start in the flowering phase.
So the moral of the story is, use all the time and space you have to veg your plants, then prune them as much as you think you have space for just before putting them into flower - you will maximise yields in the limited space you have.
A lot of growers stunt their plants in veg because they don't have room to flower large trees. So they will put their clones/seedlings under fluoros, or in small pots or give them limited nutrient so they don't grow too big too fast before going into flower.
Now think about this: if you take two plants, veg one to the max, the other as above, you will end up with one huge plant and one small plant. However, if you trim the large plant, you will end up with two similar-sized plants but one of them will have a huge, established root mass. When you put both plants into flower, they will both use energy to grow, stretch and start to flower. However, the plant with the smaller root mass needs to put more energy into growing roots than the one that already has an established root system.
In my experience, once a plant has finished stretching in the first 2-3 weeks of flower, its rate of root growth slows as its flowering production increases. But it is still relying on those roots for nutrient uptake. A good root system gives the plant a head-start in the flowering phase.
So the moral of the story is, use all the time and space you have to veg your plants, then prune them as much as you think you have space for just before putting them into flower - you will maximise yields in the limited space you have.
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