Man, you come out with some pure sci-fi genius at times - that's a fucken brilliant idea! Of course, except when it comes time to wipe off the film . . . and your trichomes, too.ben ttech wrote:eventually...
your plants will seemingly grow in the dark...
youll turn on the light so that you can work...
youll see each of their leaves tented by a soapbubble like film...
whos underside is an array of microscopic leds bathing the photoreceptors from a fraction of an inch away...
wireless of course...
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Seemingly?ben ttech wrote:eventually...
your plants will seemingly grow in the dark...
It’s finally here! Moonraker Marijuana! The long wait is over! Grown in the Anarctic, doesnt need light to grow!
http://budtrader.com/?p=1366
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ben ttech wrote:eventually...
your plants will seemingly grow in the dark...
youll turn on the light so that you can work...
youll see each of their leaves tented by a soapbubble like film...
whos underside is an array of microscopic leds bathing the photoreceptors from a fraction of an inch away...
wireless of course...
that's a cooler idea than most good sci fi writers could come up with. we're talking william gibson territory.
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I have been checking out LED grows at various other forums, including one site that is just about LEDs. It seems that LEDs have finally reached the point where they are worthwhile. Prawn is right about the UFOs. Nothing but bad reviews, but there are other commercially available units now that seem to be doing the trick. Right now I'm working on cab grow that will be lit by eight 42w CFLs then I'm going to start adding LEDs. I will be building the arrays and power supplies myself.
This I found pretty interesting:
Plants use blue light for certain regulatory processes and also for photosynthesis. Chlorophyll absorbs both blue and red light and uses the light's energy to power the complex process in which water and atmospheric carbon dioxide are converted to sugar and oxygen to gas. Blue light does not affect the regulation of flowering.
When blue light is turned on during the dark period, plants photosynthesize but their flowering isn't affected. This results in more growth as the plants produce more sugars. Before LED lights it was difficult to create pure blue light. Instead, most of the time other spectrums were filtered out, which can be an inconvenient process. Try using between 20 and 40 watts of mixed blue light per 1000 watts of regular light.
Skunk Mag (Vol 5 Issue 1)
by Ed Rosenthal
It wasnt but a week or two ago I gave the same response most people here gave about LEDs at a different forum. Then I decided I had better check on the status quo of LEDs and discovered that a lot of progress has been made in the last year or two. Not only has output power been increased but a new red LED was developed that emits at 660nm.
There are lots of new threads on this subject all over the web now, including grow shows. I think its probably time to start re-evaluating their potential. Like Prawn said stay away from the UFOs. They use low power LEDs and not quite the right spectrums if I remember right. Lots of bad reviews. But there are lots of good reviews on other arrays. You're looking at spending a fortune if you dont build your own though.
This I found pretty interesting:
Plants use blue light for certain regulatory processes and also for photosynthesis. Chlorophyll absorbs both blue and red light and uses the light's energy to power the complex process in which water and atmospheric carbon dioxide are converted to sugar and oxygen to gas. Blue light does not affect the regulation of flowering.
When blue light is turned on during the dark period, plants photosynthesize but their flowering isn't affected. This results in more growth as the plants produce more sugars. Before LED lights it was difficult to create pure blue light. Instead, most of the time other spectrums were filtered out, which can be an inconvenient process. Try using between 20 and 40 watts of mixed blue light per 1000 watts of regular light.
Skunk Mag (Vol 5 Issue 1)
by Ed Rosenthal
It wasnt but a week or two ago I gave the same response most people here gave about LEDs at a different forum. Then I decided I had better check on the status quo of LEDs and discovered that a lot of progress has been made in the last year or two. Not only has output power been increased but a new red LED was developed that emits at 660nm.
There are lots of new threads on this subject all over the web now, including grow shows. I think its probably time to start re-evaluating their potential. Like Prawn said stay away from the UFOs. They use low power LEDs and not quite the right spectrums if I remember right. Lots of bad reviews. But there are lots of good reviews on other arrays. You're looking at spending a fortune if you dont build your own though.
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jesus wrote:
When blue light is turned on during the dark period, plants photosynthesize but their flowering isn't affected. This results in more growth as the plants produce more sugars
sounds better that co2...
"disaster is the mother of necessity" rSin
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Say, what happened to Prawn? Benji?....Heh-sue-sss?
Look who's got a vendor forum of their own on ICMag now:
1512W LED Perpetual Harvest Aeroponic Bloom Room!!!
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=145384
LEDGrrl sez the website will be providing measures of micromoles/sqft at various distances for their grow lights soon.
Good, but what armchair expert here can tell me why that's not enough?
I mean come on, if ya selling $5k lighting setups to people, why don't you publish spectral output by wavelength, in narrow bands...maybe because like Sporto, ya don't really know wtf yer talking about with LED lighting, or botanical light spectrum analysis as it pertains to photosynthesis or perhaps the complex relationship between light and cannabinoid/terpine production? Yeah, I thought so. Maybe I should reg a handle over there on ICMag, and see how fast I get banned for making these points over there :D
Spectroradiometers can be had for <$5k. I've seen a less accurate one, but far more useful measure than those $300 Quantum PAR meters, selling for just over $1k.
She's going to do a grow that hits MJ's "saturation" point, yet admits she doesn't know what that point is, and she'll just go by a tomato...no links to the reference that specifies saturation point intensity measures for tomatoes either.
Kinda silly too, what equatorial sativa has the same light intensity requirements or 'saturation' point as a rudi/northern indie cross? :D
Claims the 120 deg. angle LED's don't have good penetration. Guess she doesn't do any of the R&D for that company, lol.
Look at those great LED fixtures, can she tell me why the LED's are grouped into smaller 'pods' instead of logically evenly distributed over the surface. I'll bet in 5 or more years, those type of arrangements will not be seen. Evenly spaced, likely with inexpensive plastic optical lens will provide greater 'penetration' focusing *more* of the available light being output by any angle bare LED, meaning a more efficient utilization of the light being output = few LED's needed = lower cost fixtures.
$5k for her setup, and she says they are getting a customer per week dropping such huge coin? Who are these people?
Not blue, not red, not specific frequency of red that LEDGrrrl *claims* is necessary for the superior blooming her companies' lights produce......
Cree announced recently a lab prototype LED that does 186lm/watt, at a lower K color than more typical 5k-8k blue white LED's. Time will tell if they put this into mass commercial production with in a year or two. What that means however, is that lower bins, the ones that cost much less, and are lower in efficiency; should make LED lighting much less expensive in the near future. So much so, that in just a few years, the lights the LEDGrrl is selling, will seem ridiculously overpriced in comparison. Kind of like how computer hardware improves in performance, and you get more 'bang for the buck' as time goes by.
http://www.cree.com/press/press_detail. ... 9701233981
Highest efficiency HPS HID on initial lumens is 150lm/watt....but it drops more over time than LED's that are properly designed (LED fixtures that are not properly designed, will lose more output overtime if the LED's are allowed to run too hot than even HID's). Yeah, for sure LED's run cooler/generate much less heat than HID's, but the notion (implied) that a 1512w LED setup doesn't generate heat is silly, and dishonest.
Hey check it out, LEDGrrl sez in her 1st post she's a legal MedMJ grower, doesn't advocate illegal growing...yet shows us her catus (peyote) growing under LED :D. Oh man, she's a hard-core experienced master grower, with mad skillz. Somebody should point UB to her threads
Look who's got a vendor forum of their own on ICMag now:
1512W LED Perpetual Harvest Aeroponic Bloom Room!!!
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=145384
LEDGrrl sez the website will be providing measures of micromoles/sqft at various distances for their grow lights soon.
Good, but what armchair expert here can tell me why that's not enough?
I mean come on, if ya selling $5k lighting setups to people, why don't you publish spectral output by wavelength, in narrow bands...maybe because like Sporto, ya don't really know wtf yer talking about with LED lighting, or botanical light spectrum analysis as it pertains to photosynthesis or perhaps the complex relationship between light and cannabinoid/terpine production? Yeah, I thought so. Maybe I should reg a handle over there on ICMag, and see how fast I get banned for making these points over there :D
Spectroradiometers can be had for <$5k. I've seen a less accurate one, but far more useful measure than those $300 Quantum PAR meters, selling for just over $1k.
She's going to do a grow that hits MJ's "saturation" point, yet admits she doesn't know what that point is, and she'll just go by a tomato...no links to the reference that specifies saturation point intensity measures for tomatoes either.
Kinda silly too, what equatorial sativa has the same light intensity requirements or 'saturation' point as a rudi/northern indie cross? :D
Claims the 120 deg. angle LED's don't have good penetration. Guess she doesn't do any of the R&D for that company, lol.
Look at those great LED fixtures, can she tell me why the LED's are grouped into smaller 'pods' instead of logically evenly distributed over the surface. I'll bet in 5 or more years, those type of arrangements will not be seen. Evenly spaced, likely with inexpensive plastic optical lens will provide greater 'penetration' focusing *more* of the available light being output by any angle bare LED, meaning a more efficient utilization of the light being output = few LED's needed = lower cost fixtures.
$5k for her setup, and she says they are getting a customer per week dropping such huge coin? Who are these people?
Not blue, not red, not specific frequency of red that LEDGrrrl *claims* is necessary for the superior blooming her companies' lights produce......
Cree announced recently a lab prototype LED that does 186lm/watt, at a lower K color than more typical 5k-8k blue white LED's. Time will tell if they put this into mass commercial production with in a year or two. What that means however, is that lower bins, the ones that cost much less, and are lower in efficiency; should make LED lighting much less expensive in the near future. So much so, that in just a few years, the lights the LEDGrrl is selling, will seem ridiculously overpriced in comparison. Kind of like how computer hardware improves in performance, and you get more 'bang for the buck' as time goes by.
http://www.cree.com/press/press_detail. ... 9701233981
Highest efficiency HPS HID on initial lumens is 150lm/watt....but it drops more over time than LED's that are properly designed (LED fixtures that are not properly designed, will lose more output overtime if the LED's are allowed to run too hot than even HID's). Yeah, for sure LED's run cooler/generate much less heat than HID's, but the notion (implied) that a 1512w LED setup doesn't generate heat is silly, and dishonest.
Hey check it out, LEDGrrl sez in her 1st post she's a legal MedMJ grower, doesn't advocate illegal growing...yet shows us her catus (peyote) growing under LED :D. Oh man, she's a hard-core experienced master grower, with mad skillz. Somebody should point UB to her threads
After a while, people are just going to ignore it, like I did, like I do most TV commercials.
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Cover Story
LED Lighting: The Fight for the Throne
Low-Priced Products Shake the Market; New Makers Vie with Old, Intensifying Competition
http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/article/HO ... 26/178024/
[Part 2: Technology]
Cheaper and Brighter: Innovations in Thermal Radiation, Chip Architecture and More
(I think Sporto & LEDGrrl ICMag vendor, probably missed this one vvv )
While I don't expect performance & price drops to match that of computer memory/hard drive/SSD's pace; I do expect within 5yrs or less, the only HID users will be those old farts here and on MJ forums. All other plant growers, mJ, indoor orchids, veggies, etc will have all gone over to LED's by then. There will of course be much hype and profiteering going on with LED grow lights on MJ forums between now and then :D. Maybe Sporto can make enough to retire on .
*note* I don't buy a 'deputy general manager' from a Bus div's 'should be possible' words, as if he was a knowledgeable scientist. 300lm/w is not likely, baring some impressive newer innovations in LED physics that don't currently exist. 200lm/w for sure, in that time frame.
http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/article/HO ... 26/178025/
LED Lighting: The Fight for the Throne
Low-Priced Products Shake the Market; New Makers Vie with Old, Intensifying Competition
http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/article/HO ... 26/178024/
[Part 2: Technology]
Cheaper and Brighter: Innovations in Thermal Radiation, Chip Architecture and More
(I think Sporto & LEDGrrl ICMag vendor, probably missed this one vvv )
While I don't expect performance & price drops to match that of computer memory/hard drive/SSD's pace; I do expect within 5yrs or less, the only HID users will be those old farts here and on MJ forums. All other plant growers, mJ, indoor orchids, veggies, etc will have all gone over to LED's by then. There will of course be much hype and profiteering going on with LED grow lights on MJ forums between now and then :D. Maybe Sporto can make enough to retire on .
*note* I don't buy a 'deputy general manager' from a Bus div's 'should be possible' words, as if he was a knowledgeable scientist. 300lm/w is not likely, baring some impressive newer innovations in LED physics that don't currently exist. 200lm/w for sure, in that time frame.
http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/article/HO ... 26/178025/
The firm acquired the LED operation of Mitsubishi Cable Industries Ltd of Japan in 2008, and entered into a licensing agreement with Cree Inc of the US in Jan 2009 for m-plane GaN technology. The company plans to use the technology to supply white LEDs combining outstanding color characteristics with high emission efficiency, cooperating with lighting system manufacturers to make and market complete fixtures.
LED chips using m-plane GaN substrates use GaN crystal cut on the non-polar m-plane, with GaN layers grown on top. Engineers believe that it can provide performance superior to the sapphire substrate in common use now, according to Shin Kawana, deputy general manager, Business Planning Group, SSLD Department, Information and Electronics Div at the firm: "With m-plane GaN it should be possible to roughly triple emission efficiency, which means 200lm/W to 300lm/W."
The development of m-plane GaN substrate LEDs is under way at other companies, universities, etc, as well, but problems with poor productivity and high cost have been cited. Mitsubishi Chemical uses a relatively low-cost liquid-phase growth technique. The firm's Kawana revealed they hope to cut manufacturing cost to the level of blue LED chips by about 2015.
The company currently uses a conventional LED package, with a combination of blue LED and yellow phosphors (Fig 7). The next step will be to apply the firm's expertise in phosphors to combine red and green phosphors with the blue LED, creating an LED package with outstanding color characteristics. This type of package generally suffers from low emission efficiency, but the company hopes to boost that to 100lm/W by 2010 by enhancing the phosphors.
The m-plane GaN substrate is a good choice for future generations, too. Engineers are working on a package for high emission efficiency and good color characteristics by combining the substrate with a near-ultraviolet LED and red, green and blue phosphors. Sample-shipment is scheduled to begin before the end of fiscal 2009, with volume production slated for 2011.
After a while, people are just going to ignore it, like I did, like I do most TV commercials.
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I know there is a guy doing a test at overgrow, i think. I belive that its possible, but more research needs to be done, something Advanced nutirents should look at.