LED Lights

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Dick Hertz
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Post by Dick Hertz »

Do any of you have any experience with LED lighting? A friend of mine is considering buying one.

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Post by A Bloke Down The Pub »

Dick Hertz wrote:Do any of you have any experience with LED lighting? A friend of mine is considering buying one.
No experience, but the word on the street is "don't bother".

They're no better than CFLs in any respect and cost many, many times more.
I've seen lots of LED threads with various setups and without exception, they've been very unimpressive.

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Post by Dick Hertz »

Thanks Bloke, I will pass that on.

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Post by JapanFreak »

There was a guy who called himself hydrorascal who was raving about them over at TCC about a year and a half ago. Went so far as trying to sell his own lights. I think his grows went south or his lights did because he disappeared and nobody has heard from him.

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Post by Prawn Connery »

We've grown with them and they're useless. The local hydro shop guy gave two UFOs to a commercial mate of mine to trial before he stocked them and he went from averaging 2 x 1lb plants under 2 x 600w of HPS to about 2-3oz per plant under 2 UFOs in the same space (total 5oz compared to 2lb prior). The bud was good quality, but the plants ended up so small it was laughable. Even more laughable was the price for the two UFOs - almost US$4000 for the entire set-up (2 x UFOs and 1 cabinet). I still think my mate kept them too high above the plants, and that they should have been closer for better results, but I still couldn't see them beating a HPS lamp for output/results and - most importantly - cost. The only area they beat the HPS was in grams-per-watt. The UFOs were 90w each, so while he was averaging about .75g per watt with HPS lamps, he got .78g per watt from the UFOs. That was as good as it got. A proper HPS grow should be able to get close to 1g/w anyway - my mate doesn't look after his grows as well as he should, as he doesn't smoke pot himself, he only grows for commercial reasons.
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Post by PGs GossipGrrl™ »

Wrong site, wrong peeps to ask. Forget about TCC and most others...like former Legion 'let's have a LED thread' on PG. n00bs, armchair experts who repeat on obsolete, old antiquated LED tech anecdotal evidence. Like Sportster, benji, etc. (same for FSM's linked thread, unfortunately :p)

TCC's herd mentality lead by Shoody Noody, just couldn't handle latest LED developments, nor do people understand fully the dynamics of grow lighting.

Old thread, but try reading this one, or search on LED@CC

LED lighting on trial

http://forums.cannabisculture.com/forum ... 888&page=1
After a while, people are just going to ignore it, like I did, like I do most TV commercials.

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Post by PGs GossipGrrl™ »

FullySikMate wrote:Sounds like you got trully ripped off with those UFO's Prawn :roll:

....
If i remember correctly he comes to the conclusion they just aint worth it yet


Won't be 'worth it' from a cost vs HID, only consideration for many years, until the more efficient, higher output LED's become commodity items selling for <$3ea.
Better LED's (not the ones used in craptastic LED grow lights by startup co's like those being adverts on MJ forums) currently cost ~$6 USD ea, in quantities <1000. Got to buy 100k or more to bring the price down.

There are a whole range of LED efficiencies in a particular manufacturers line, constantly changing from year to year. You have to look at which specific model part# are being used. Virtually none of the 'grow' light manufacturers provide any essentially useful info.

I think advanced LED is a bit stagnent at present, due to world wide recession. Give it a few more years.
After a while, people are just going to ignore it, like I did, like I do most TV commercials.

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Post by Dick Hertz »

Thanks for all your input.
My friend is going to have to make up his own mind but I think clearly they are not ready for prime time and that's what I am going to tell him.

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Post by Prawn Connery »

FullySikMate wrote:Sounds like you got trully ripped off with those UFO's Prawn :roll:
Didn't get ripped off - we didn't pay for them. It was a trial grow. The shop lent them to us to see if they were any good before he decided to stock them. The verdict was he wouldn't stock them after our results.

When I say "we/our" I really mean my mate - I help him out with his grows, supplying clones/troubleshooting etc, but it was his grow. If it were mine, I would have hung them lower. But I grow vertically anyway, so I wasn't about to change my setup to trial a couple of dodgy horizontal UFOs.
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Post by PGs GossipGrrl™ »

Dick Hertz wrote:Do any of you have any experience with LED lighting? A friend of mine is considering buying one.
Sometimes, ya gotta think out of the box...won't find that on MJ forums. I remember all the tools/trolls on OG...on the fluoro threads. Now the fluoro proponents would have told you, fluro can't provide enough light for decent grows. Yet some do alright, witness the ego sensitive Beekaa mod on OpG who edited my post, simply because I disagreed with him, lol. Well he was wrong, so what if he's got as 'The Joker' said to me in a PM alerting me to the fact that he got email from people who said "who is this blowhard, asshole"...most likely Big-V didn't like my stealing his Mick jagger swagger thunder, in avoiding being arrested. Yeah, so what if the Netherlands has lots of experience with *current* and old antiquated fluro micro cabinet grows that are according to 'The Joker" "awesomely documented" BFD.

Yeah, The Joker can, as well as PG trolls, call me all the names, 'armchair expert' they want.

Let me throw you some other thoughts, you won't see on *any* other MJ forums.

I was (as the Joker uses his ad homenin attacks, saying anyone can do CnP Google searches....er, just like Benji, except benji doesn't understand what he's saying but tries real hard to impress people that he does :P ) reading up, searching on MJ forums for the latest in ceramic metal halide lighting (what Jesus, who besides being an annoying troll on PG actually understood a bit more than most)...I got on to some threads about PAR, spectrum analysis and what not. Seems there are some who are following, reading, trying to find all the answers. Good thread on uk420 with OpG/wb forum member/mod 'Whazzup" about UV light...seems even OldTimer1 is interested in experimenting, even if he doesn't really grasp all the dynmics involved... Yet

If you want to find out about the highest intensity, possible replacement for true high power HID lighting, go to the reefer forums, ie. aquarium forums...but be advised, Admn & mods on the biggest of reefer forums are in fact current LEO, Do search on Sanjay, univ. prof who did extensive testing on aquarium HID with a loaned/ discountinued $5k spectroradiograph from the lead scientific equipment manufacturer in that field. Do a search benji, the company name is Li-Cor. ah, hell...I'll do it for you:

http://www.licor.com/

and they know full well about MJ forums members being interested in the most powerful lighting tech. There were a few on TCC who were really interested, 'wyldflowers' who deleted had a apogee PAR meter---no really that accurate, or more useful than a lux meter as it doesn't give you measurement of frequency bandwidth intensity but just an average of the entire output, but they mostly left when TCC got 'Shoodynized' last year.

Then there's me, armchair expert too :D...but with a twist, knows more than just Google searches...been to the leading Chinese distribution warehouse/importer of latest fluro tech. Expensive as hell, but not as much as hype LED MJ forum directed lighting. I've seen five figure cost spectroradiograph equipment that gives real-time graphical color output of the spectrum on a laptop, very accurate measure of PAR and anything else you want.

But I digress. on the subject of future LED tech, in the thread I previously linked to, it was almost like a PG thead :D. And here I thought only PG was a 'free speech' site, lol.

Tell your friend you need to know what LED emitters are being used to avoid the hype, almost no one on MJ forums understands LED tech at all. And you ask, do I, armchair expert know? Not completely, but I do have a friend who is a LED fanatic, spends his time on a certain flashlight forum I got banned from :D. He's got an Ivy League Univ degree in electrical engineering.

http://forums.cannabisculture.com/forum ... 88&page=23
Lumi Grow 260w (250w usable light) 50-5w Luxeon LED, 50w of blue and 200w of red.

___

___

red and blue = purple...duh

__
awwh, purdy pix...and the post author says you need 3w or 5w emitters. Well maybe. What you need to understand is them there LED's are current limited/driven devices. Same LED can be driven to 3w or 5w if it was designed for that. And at higher wattages (current flow) efficiency deteriorates unless you can keep them emitters nice an cool (sorry Sportster, LED's do emit some heat, and if not controlled, it's a waste of energy/efficiency)

Food for thought, hey where's that troll FatFreddiesCAt, he was interested in reptilian UV lamps, though he too did not comprehend the dynamics involved there:

http://www.laserfocusworld.com/display_ ... tioxidants
When bombarded with ultraviolet rays from the sun, the lettuce leaf creates UV-absorbing polyphenolic compounds in its outer layer of cells. Some of these compounds are red and belong to the same family that gives color to berries and apple skin. They help block ultraviolet radiation, which can mutate plant DNA and damage the photosynthesis that allows a plant to make its food. Polyphenolic compounds,which include flavonoids like quercetin and cyanidin, are also powerful antioxidants. Diets rich in antioxidants are thought to provide a variety of health benefits to human beings, from improving brain function to slowing the wear and tear of aging.

To create red leaf lettuce plants enriched with these compounds, Britz purchased low-power LEDs that shine with UVB light, a component of natural sunlight. In small quantities, this ultraviolet light allows humans to produce vitamin D, which has been cited for its health benefits. Britz exposed the plants to levels of UVB light comparable to those that a beach goer would feel on a sunny day, approximately 10 milliwatts per square meter. After 43 hours of exposure to UVB light, the growing lettuce plants were noticeably redder than other plants that only saw white light.
Remember when you read about some new product by a company that's trying to sell it, everything they publish might be misleading :p. TMod Maverick said as much on OpG,

http://www.ledsmagazine.com/news/6/4/5
Plant growth gets the red light from Showa Denko
07 Apr 2009
The Japanese LED maker has developed high-performance 660 nm chips that accelerate plant photosynthe
http://www.ledsmagazine.com/news/6/5/1
Several announcements from leading LED makers including Cree and Lumileds demonstrate further improvements at the device level.
Cree LED achieves 139 lm at 350 mA
Just before Lightfair, Cree announced the XLamp XP-G LED, described as “the industry's brightest and highest-efficiency Lighting-Class LED” (see press release).
It is important to note that the XP-G is not yet commercially available, however Cree is currently taking sample requests and says products should be available in the third quarter of calendar 2009.
The cool white XLamp XP-G provides 139 lumens and 132 lm/W at 350 mA, and 345 lm at a current of 1 A. Presumably, these figures relate to the highest available bin.
Cree claims that the XP-G LED has “the highest lumen density of any available lighting-class LED.” The product is based on the XLamp XP family package, with dimensions of 3.45 x 3.45 mm. Cree’s XR family package measure 7.0 x 9.0 mm.
Note the package size on these, 1/4th the area of standard high-power LED's now in use in the older MJ forum LED lighting non-solutions :D...can you think of a reason why that might be important?

Prototype 150lm/w LED's have been demonstrated as of late 2007, now up to 191lm/w..will take years before they become common, but they *are* coming, and eventually will be a cheap as computer memory, ie, should replace most HID applications.

Ah the penetration issue, MJ forum trolls like on PG...all so homoerotic, don't you think? Lack of understanding of how plants are using light, I suppose. Or else, how one *might* obtain better uniformity...ya need a no-hype grow light company to get you that, or someone who's going to experiment and has the appropriate light intensity measurement exquipment to do more than just pontificate/masterbate over the internet.

Multichip emitters may be the way of future high output LED lighting:

http://www.ledsmagazine.com/news/6/3/25

In 5 or 10yrs, OLED's *may* surpass more common LED's as the light solution of choice...they are at near 90lm/w efficiency now, more than what is likely being used in the current MJ Forums LED grow lights

Did you know, the older Luxeon Rebel at it's surface is brighter than noon daylight sun? Can burn right through black electrical tape not from heat, but from concentrated light, like a magnifying glass focusing the sunlight can start a fire?

What are these you say?

http://dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.13903

http://dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.4584

In quantity, they don't cost much. How many MJ forums LED grow lights are using these to *maximize* light intensity delivery, would not add significantly to the cost of a grow light with 100 or more LED's? I've not see a one, why is that? Ah the emperor and his clothes...in a nut shell we have current LED grow lamp tech :p long on hype, little as far as useful comparative light output between HID...I mean actual *accurate* measuring instruments, used properly in a controlled study.

Must be because I'm such an awesome armchair expert, huh. Prolly why Pistils banned me from BB, that and my calling hhf on his BS hype strain descriptions...just Pistils protecting his own business interests like the complete hypocrite he is.
^attack the message, when you can't understand the implications :p typical MJ forum 'debate'

To be fair to Pistils, at least he was interested in a new tech, Sodium Plasma lighting, just the wrong tech to get excited about :D ...still a douchebag though.
After a while, people are just going to ignore it, like I did, like I do most TV commercials.

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